* [9fans] new 9atom.iso @ 2009-08-26 13:32 erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 15:34 ` Hector Oron 0 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-26 13:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans it contains all the changes from the last 10 days. should fix all reported problems, except béla's. - erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-26 13:32 [9fans] new 9atom.iso erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-27 15:34 ` Hector Oron 2009-08-27 16:16 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 17:06 ` Lyndon Nerenberg 0 siblings, 2 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: Hector Oron @ 2009-08-27 15:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Hello, 2009/8/26 erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>: > it contains all the changes from the last 10 days. > should fix all reported problems, except béla's. Could you post the link? I am new to this list and plan9, and i can not find a 9atom.iso, but a plan9.iso.bz2 [1] It would also be helpful for me reading some introductory material, i guess i can find it, but if you know some reference i would appreciate it. Kind regards and thanks for the work :) [1] http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/download/plan9.iso.bz2 -- Héctor Orón ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 15:34 ` Hector Oron @ 2009-08-27 16:16 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 16:51 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-27 19:06 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-27 17:06 ` Lyndon Nerenberg 1 sibling, 2 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-27 16:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > 2009/8/26 erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>: > > it contains all the changes from the last 10 days. > > should fix all reported problems, except béla's. > > Could you post the link? I am new to this list and plan9, and i can > not find a 9atom.iso, but a plan9.iso.bz2 [1] > It would also be helpful for me reading some introductory material, i > guess i can find it, but if you know some reference i would appreciate > it. the link is ftp://ftp.quanstro.net/other/9atom.iso.bz2 cf819b70c90cedc39e305fb57d38f5df37302f84 Aug 26 09:13 9atom.iso.bz2 just a point of clarification. the purpose of 9atom.iso is to help people get going who are having trouble with various sata or pata chipsets. i recommend using the standard cd if it works for you. applying the contrib packages to an official cd makes more sense as i hope that this one-off cd can go away in the future. it has different kernels and 9loads than the distribution. it also applies the ape strtod fix to awk, and doesn't use floating point in venti or fossil to avoid rounding errors. you can think of 9atom.iso as plan9.iso.bz2 + contrib quanstro/9load-e820 (binaries only) contrib quanstro/sd (binaries only) /n/sources/patch/apestrtod (awk binary only) /n/sources/patch/fossil-sleep-stress (venti moded, too) for my own convienence, there are some kernel differences not covered above. they should be inconsequential. but the source to that kernel is here ftp://ftp.quanstro.net/other/kernel.mkfs.bz2 - erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 16:16 ` erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-27 16:51 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-27 17:05 ` ron minnich 2009-08-27 18:01 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 19:06 ` David Leimbach 1 sibling, 2 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: David Leimbach @ 2009-08-27 16:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2021 bytes --] On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:16 AM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>wrote: > > 2009/8/26 erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>: > > > it contains all the changes from the last 10 days. > > > should fix all reported problems, except béla's. > > > > Could you post the link? I am new to this list and plan9, and i can > > not find a 9atom.iso, but a plan9.iso.bz2 [1] > > It would also be helpful for me reading some introductory material, i > > guess i can find it, but if you know some reference i would appreciate > > it. > > the link is > ftp://ftp.quanstro.net/other/9atom.iso.bz2 > cf819b70c90cedc39e305fb57d38f5df37302f84 Aug 26 09:13 > 9atom.iso.bz2 > > just a point of clarification. the purpose of 9atom.iso > is to help people get going who are having trouble with > various sata or pata chipsets. i recommend using > the standard cd if it works for you. applying the contrib > packages to an official cd makes more sense as i hope > that this one-off cd can go away in the future. > > it has different kernels and 9loads than the distribution. > it also applies the ape strtod fix to awk, and doesn't use > floating point in venti or fossil to avoid rounding errors. > you can think of 9atom.iso as plan9.iso.bz2 + > contrib quanstro/9load-e820 (binaries only) > contrib quanstro/sd (binaries only) > /n/sources/patch/apestrtod (awk binary only) > /n/sources/patch/fossil-sleep-stress > (venti moded, too) > > for my own convienence, there are some kernel differences > not covered above. they should be inconsequential. > but the source to that kernel is here > ftp://ftp.quanstro.net/other/kernel.mkfs.bz2 > > - erik > > I think there's work going on to use plan 9 to load plan 9 (maybe?) to replace 9load. However, is there any chance of getting your 9load in the mainline if/once people determine it to support more hardware? [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2661 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 16:51 ` David Leimbach @ 2009-08-27 17:05 ` ron minnich 2009-08-27 17:07 ` David Leimbach ` (2 more replies) 2009-08-27 18:01 ` erik quanstrom 1 sibling, 3 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2009-08-27 17:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:51 AM, David Leimbach<leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote: > I think there's work going on to use plan 9 to load plan 9 (maybe?) to > replace 9load. It's a gsoc project for Iruata to which I just gave a passing grade. it's doable. It needs a new PBS, which iruata wrote. ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 17:05 ` ron minnich @ 2009-08-27 17:07 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-27 17:24 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 18:26 ` Uriel 2 siblings, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: David Leimbach @ 2009-08-27 17:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 409 bytes --] On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:05 AM, ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:51 AM, David Leimbach<leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I think there's work going on to use plan 9 to load plan 9 (maybe?) to > > replace 9load. > > It's a gsoc project for Iruata to which I just gave a passing grade. > > it's doable. It needs a new PBS, which iruata wrote. > > ron > > COOL! [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 774 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 17:05 ` ron minnich 2009-08-27 17:07 ` David Leimbach @ 2009-08-27 17:24 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 18:26 ` Uriel 2 siblings, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-27 17:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > > I think there's work going on to use plan 9 to load plan 9 (maybe?) to > > replace 9load. > > It's a gsoc project for Iruata to which I just gave a passing grade. > > it's doable. It needs a new PBS, which iruata wrote. is it small enough to pxe? - erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 17:05 ` ron minnich 2009-08-27 17:07 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-27 17:24 ` erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-27 18:26 ` Uriel 2009-08-27 18:39 ` ron minnich 2009-08-27 18:40 ` Iruata Souza 2 siblings, 2 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: Uriel @ 2009-08-27 18:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Er, it doesn't need a new PBS, booting Plan 9 from a Plan 9 kernel already worked just fine with what russ did years ago. uriel On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 7:05 PM, ron minnich<rminnich@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:51 AM, David Leimbach<leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I think there's work going on to use plan 9 to load plan 9 (maybe?) to >> replace 9load. > > It's a gsoc project for Iruata to which I just gave a passing grade. > > it's doable. It needs a new PBS, which iruata wrote. > > ron > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 18:26 ` Uriel @ 2009-08-27 18:39 ` ron minnich 2009-08-27 18:40 ` Iruata Souza 1 sibling, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2009-08-27 18:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote: > Er, it doesn't need a new PBS, booting Plan 9 from a Plan 9 kernel > already worked just fine with what russ did years ago. Hi, to clear up the air, and correct this wrong comment: we did a few things - kill the FAT partition - parse an a.out header, load the plan 9 kernel from partition blocks 2 and up To do this requires a new pbs. I don't much care if you believe me, perhaps you can implement this yourself first before you make such a claim. ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 18:26 ` Uriel 2009-08-27 18:39 ` ron minnich @ 2009-08-27 18:40 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-27 18:48 ` Uriel 2009-08-27 19:07 ` Tim Newsham 1 sibling, 2 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: Iruata Souza @ 2009-08-27 18:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote: > Er, it doesn't need a new PBS, booting Plan 9 from a Plan 9 kernel > already worked just fine with what russ did years ago. > > uriel > i heard that from you already. i just don't know why haven't you done it yet. for the ones interested, the code is at http://src.oitobits.net/9null. i'm writing a README explaining how to compile and install. iru ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 18:40 ` Iruata Souza @ 2009-08-27 18:48 ` Uriel 2009-08-27 18:56 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-27 18:57 ` ron minnich 2009-08-27 19:07 ` Tim Newsham 1 sibling, 2 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: Uriel @ 2009-08-27 18:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Can it load and parse plan9.ini? uriel On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Iruata Souza<iru.muzgo@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote: >> Er, it doesn't need a new PBS, booting Plan 9 from a Plan 9 kernel >> already worked just fine with what russ did years ago. >> >> uriel >> > > i heard that from you already. i just don't know why haven't you done it yet. > > for the ones interested, the code is at http://src.oitobits.net/9null. > i'm writing a README explaining how to compile and install. > > iru > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 18:48 ` Uriel @ 2009-08-27 18:56 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-27 18:57 ` ron minnich 1 sibling, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: Iruata Souza @ 2009-08-27 18:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote: > Can it load and parse plan9.ini? > > uriel > it can. can you? iru ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 18:48 ` Uriel 2009-08-27 18:56 ` Iruata Souza @ 2009-08-27 18:57 ` ron minnich 2009-08-27 19:07 ` Uriel 1 sibling, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2009-08-27 18:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote: > Can it load and parse plan9.ini? why do you want to do that? Just wondering. ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 18:57 ` ron minnich @ 2009-08-27 19:07 ` Uriel 2009-08-27 19:17 ` ron minnich 0 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: Uriel @ 2009-08-27 19:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Because the whole point of the project was to replace 9load, and the way plan9 systems tell 9load what kernel to load is using plan9.ini On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:57 PM, ron minnich<rminnich@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote: >> Can it load and parse plan9.ini? > > why do you want to do that? Just wondering. > > ron > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 19:07 ` Uriel @ 2009-08-27 19:17 ` ron minnich 2009-08-27 19:27 ` Uriel 2009-08-27 20:14 ` erik quanstrom 0 siblings, 2 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2009-08-27 19:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote: > Because the whole point of the project was to replace 9load, and the > way plan9 systems tell 9load what kernel to load is using plan9.ini no, the point of the project was to have a new way to load that did not require 9load or 9fat or any legacy at all. I am surprised you would tie yourself down to legacy that way. Or I'm not. Do we stick with that file format forever? is it perfect and never to be changed? ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 19:17 ` ron minnich @ 2009-08-27 19:27 ` Uriel 2009-08-27 19:34 ` ron minnich 2009-08-27 21:57 ` Steve Simon 2009-08-27 20:14 ` erik quanstrom 1 sibling, 2 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: Uriel @ 2009-08-27 19:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:17 PM, ron minnich<rminnich@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote: >> Because the whole point of the project was to replace 9load, and the >> way plan9 systems tell 9load what kernel to load is using plan9.ini > > no, yes. > the point of the project was to have a new way to load that did > not require 9load Right. > or 9fat or any legacy at all. Wrong. > I am surprised you > would tie yourself down to legacy that way. Or I'm not. 9fat might be 'legacy', but unlike 9load it causes no problems or wasted duplicated efforts, is simple and reliable, it is convenient because can be accessed from other OSes, and is used by most Plan 9 systems to store their kernels and plan9.inis To replace 9fat we would need something that at least shared all its advantages, and I have not seen any proposal that does. > Do we stick with that file format forever? is it perfect and never to > be changed? plan9.ini is certainly not perfect, and I'm happy to see it changed some day, but that was not what the project was about. Anyway, it doesn't matter because apparently the bits I wanted have been written (or so I'm told) and should work (if I'm not mistaken) just fine in a backwards compatible fashion using russ' boot scheme. uriel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 19:27 ` Uriel @ 2009-08-27 19:34 ` ron minnich 2009-08-27 20:35 ` Uriel 2009-08-27 21:57 ` Steve Simon 1 sibling, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2009-08-27 19:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote: > plan9.ini is certainly not perfect, and I'm happy to see it changed > some day, but that was not what the project was about. I'm glad to know you defined the project. I guess the guy who wrote the code (Iruata) and the mentor (me) were just confused. Anyway, anyone familiar with the situation understands your level of accuracy, so the point is made. ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 19:34 ` ron minnich @ 2009-08-27 20:35 ` Uriel 2009-08-27 20:46 ` ron minnich 0 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: Uriel @ 2009-08-27 20:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:34 PM, ron minnich<rminnich@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote: > >> plan9.ini is certainly not perfect, and I'm happy to see it changed >> some day, but that was not what the project was about. > > I'm glad to know you defined the project. I guess the guy who wrote the code > (Iruata) and the mentor (me) were just confused. Yes, you were confused, and yes, the project was my idea (although that was just a restatement of russ original suggestion). But it doesn't matter because it seems eventually iru got around writing the code needed to fulfill russ original idea, so I'm happy because if I understood this correctly, it should be possible to put that together with russ loader and have a backwards compatible replacement for 9load. uriel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 20:35 ` Uriel @ 2009-08-27 20:46 ` ron minnich 0 siblings, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2009-08-27 20:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote: > Yes, you were confused, and yes, the project was my idea (although > that was just a restatement of russ original suggestion). you mean it was russ' original idea which you misunderstood, I expect. And it's hardly new: we were doing it at LANL 8 years ago when we put Plan 9 in flash, and it was not new then. > backwards compatible > replacement for 9load. Great. the code is there, we're waiting for you to finish it. ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 19:27 ` Uriel 2009-08-27 19:34 ` ron minnich @ 2009-08-27 21:57 ` Steve Simon 2009-08-27 22:05 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-28 1:56 ` Federico G. Benavento 1 sibling, 2 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: Steve Simon @ 2009-08-27 21:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans 9fat is also a pain in that the 9load file must be created with, and retain its append only file, which has a special meaning to 9fat telling it to create the file in sequential blocks. This could (and has) caused problems if you access the 9fat partition from os's other than plan9. The only times I have had to change plan9.ini from somthing else than the booted system (because I have broken the boot process) I booted the plan9 live cdrom. I would be happy if 9load and 9fat disappeared and it was replaced with a plan9 bootstrap kernel and (say) an rc(1) script. -Steve ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 21:57 ` Steve Simon @ 2009-08-27 22:05 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-27 22:18 ` Christopher Nielsen 2009-08-27 22:30 ` tlaronde 2009-08-28 1:56 ` Federico G. Benavento 1 sibling, 2 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: Iruata Souza @ 2009-08-27 22:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 6:57 PM, Steve Simon<steve@quintile.net> wrote: > 9fat is also a pain in that the 9load file must be created with, > and retain its append only file, which has a special meaning to 9fat > telling it to create the file in sequential blocks. > > This could (and has) caused problems if you access the 9fat partition > from os's other than plan9. > > The only times I have had to change plan9.ini from somthing else > than the booted system (because I have broken the boot process) > I booted the plan9 live cdrom. > > I would be happy if 9load and 9fat disappeared and it was > replaced with a plan9 bootstrap kernel and (say) an rc(1) script. > that's just what 9null is: new pbs, 9pcload (bootstrap kernel), /boot/boot using rc(1) scripts. instead of a 'root from' you may get a 'kernel is at' prompt to which you can ask for a shell (!rc) iru ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 22:05 ` Iruata Souza @ 2009-08-27 22:18 ` Christopher Nielsen 2009-08-27 22:30 ` tlaronde 1 sibling, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: Christopher Nielsen @ 2009-08-27 22:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Nice work! I think this is great! Thanks for your efforts. On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 15:05, Iruata Souza<iru.muzgo@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 6:57 PM, Steve Simon<steve@quintile.net> wrote: >> 9fat is also a pain in that the 9load file must be created with, >> and retain its append only file, which has a special meaning to 9fat >> telling it to create the file in sequential blocks. >> >> This could (and has) caused problems if you access the 9fat partition >> from os's other than plan9. >> >> The only times I have had to change plan9.ini from somthing else >> than the booted system (because I have broken the boot process) >> I booted the plan9 live cdrom. >> >> I would be happy if 9load and 9fat disappeared and it was >> replaced with a plan9 bootstrap kernel and (say) an rc(1) script. >> > > that's just what 9null is: new pbs, 9pcload (bootstrap kernel), > /boot/boot using rc(1) scripts. > instead of a 'root from' you may get a 'kernel is at' prompt to which > you can ask for a shell (!rc) > > iru > > -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 22:05 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-27 22:18 ` Christopher Nielsen @ 2009-08-27 22:30 ` tlaronde 1 sibling, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: tlaronde @ 2009-08-27 22:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 07:05:31PM -0300, Iruata Souza wrote: > > that's just what 9null is: new pbs, 9pcload (bootstrap kernel), > /boot/boot using rc(1) scripts. > instead of a 'root from' you may get a 'kernel is at' prompt to which > you can ask for a shell (!rc) Thank you for doing this. I worked years ago to add El Torito and uncommon floppy formats to Grub just to realize that adding fs drivers, ethernet drivers, shell like scripting we were just reinventing the wheel i.e. a kernel, that was never efficient enough to recover a system when there was a problem, and generally too complex for normal use when it was just booting as usual. It is simpler to be fs agnostic and load a sequence of sectors. (Just as a note, there was at some time a tarfs with some BSD to have a kind of organized stream of sectors. No incentive or whatever, just a note about the same kind of principles or tracks followed somewhere else.) Cheers, -- Thierry Laronde (Alceste) <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com> http://www.kergis.com/ Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 21:57 ` Steve Simon 2009-08-27 22:05 ` Iruata Souza @ 2009-08-28 1:56 ` Federico G. Benavento 2009-08-28 2:29 ` erik quanstrom 1 sibling, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: Federico G. Benavento @ 2009-08-28 1:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs I solved this by deleting everything for the fat partition (which was a fat16lba, not a 9fat) and then copy the files in the right order all this done in vista it worked On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 6:57 PM, Steve Simon<steve@quintile.net> wrote: > 9fat is also a pain in that the 9load file must be created with, > and retain its append only file, which has a special meaning to 9fat > telling it to create the file in sequential blocks. > > This could (and has) caused problems if you access the 9fat partition > from os's other than plan9. > > The only times I have had to change plan9.ini from somthing else > than the booted system (because I have broken the boot process) > I booted the plan9 live cdrom. > > I would be happy if 9load and 9fat disappeared and it was > replaced with a plan9 bootstrap kernel and (say) an rc(1) script. > > -Steve > > -- Federico G. Benavento ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 1:56 ` Federico G. Benavento @ 2009-08-28 2:29 ` erik quanstrom 0 siblings, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-28 2:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > I solved this by deleting everything for the fat partition (which was a > fat16lba, not a 9fat) and then copy the files in the right order all this > done in vista > > it worked i believe io.sys in dos must be contiguous, too. http://www.csulb.edu/~murdock/format.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IO.SYS http://support.microsoft.com/kb/66530/en-us i had always wondered why plan9.ini was the way it is. i had not realized that it is compatable with config.sys http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CONFIG.SYS does anyone know the reason for this? - erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 19:17 ` ron minnich 2009-08-27 19:27 ` Uriel @ 2009-08-27 20:14 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 20:24 ` ron minnich ` (3 more replies) 1 sibling, 4 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-27 20:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > Do we stick with that file format forever? is it perfect and never to > be changed? would it be fair to ask a the same question from a little different perspective? could someone explain what the disadvantages and problems with 9fat are? i'm asking out of ignorance, since 9fat hasn't been a problem for me. - erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 20:14 ` erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-27 20:24 ` ron minnich 2009-08-27 20:28 ` Iruata Souza ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2009-08-27 20:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 1:14 PM, erik quanstrom<quanstro@coraid.com> wrote: > could someone explain what the disadvantages and problems > with 9fat are? i'm asking out of ignorance, since 9fat hasn't > been a problem for me. 8.3. It's burned me time and again. ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 20:14 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 20:24 ` ron minnich @ 2009-08-27 20:28 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-27 21:41 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 20:37 ` Uriel 2009-08-28 7:59 ` Gorka Guardiola 3 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: Iruata Souza @ 2009-08-27 20:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 5:14 PM, erik quanstrom<quanstro@coraid.com> wrote: >> Do we stick with that file format forever? is it perfect and never to >> be changed? > > would it be fair to ask a the same question from a little > different perspective? > > could someone explain what the disadvantages and problems > with 9fat are? i'm asking out of ignorance, since 9fat hasn't > been a problem for me. > 9fat serves only two purposes: a) be a home for plan9.ini, b) be a home for some kernels. in the actual state of affairs, you must have 9fat and it must reside at the very beginning of the Plan 9 slice on the disk. 9null (the project we're talking about) doesn't require any of it, but allows it. you can have a fat partition with plan9.ini and, say, 9pcf. but it can't reside at the very beginning of the disk. in fact, you should be able to have plan9.ini and kernels anywhere you want: fossil, kfs, ext2, iso9660, &c. the Plan 9 slice layout used by 9null is: sector 0: pbs sector 1: Plan 9 partition table sector 2..k: 9pcload kernel sector k..n: data iru ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 20:28 ` Iruata Souza @ 2009-08-27 21:41 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 21:46 ` Iruata Souza 0 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-27 21:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > 9null (the project we're talking about) doesn't require any of it, but > allows it. you can have a fat partition with plan9.ini and, say, 9pcf. > but it can't reside at the very beginning of the disk. in fact, you > should be able to have plan9.ini and kernels anywhere you want: > fossil, kfs, ext2, iso9660, &c. > > the Plan 9 slice layout used by 9null is: > sector 0: pbs > sector 1: Plan 9 partition table > sector 2..k: 9pcload kernel > sector k..n: data is there a 9pxenull? that is a PXE-loadable 9null. all machines here except the auth and file servers PXE boot. - erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 21:41 ` erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-27 21:46 ` Iruata Souza 0 siblings, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: Iruata Souza @ 2009-08-27 21:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 6:41 PM, erik quanstrom<quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote: >> 9null (the project we're talking about) doesn't require any of it, but >> allows it. you can have a fat partition with plan9.ini and, say, 9pcf. >> but it can't reside at the very beginning of the disk. in fact, you >> should be able to have plan9.ini and kernels anywhere you want: >> fossil, kfs, ext2, iso9660, &c. >> >> the Plan 9 slice layout used by 9null is: >> sector 0: pbs >> sector 1: Plan 9 partition table >> sector 2..k: 9pcload kernel >> sector k..n: data > > is there a 9pxenull? that is a PXE-loadable 9null. > all machines here except the auth and file servers > PXE boot. > i didn't take a look at pxe booting yet, but i'd be happy to have it working. iru ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 20:14 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 20:24 ` ron minnich 2009-08-27 20:28 ` Iruata Souza @ 2009-08-27 20:37 ` Uriel 2009-08-27 21:09 ` Tim Newsham 2009-08-28 7:59 ` Gorka Guardiola 3 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: Uriel @ 2009-08-27 20:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:14 PM, erik quanstrom<quanstro@coraid.com> wrote: >> Do we stick with that file format forever? is it perfect and never to >> be changed? > > would it be fair to ask a the same question from a little > different perspective? > > could someone explain what the disadvantages and problems > with 9fat are? i'm asking out of ignorance, since 9fat hasn't > been a problem for me. It has not been a problem for anyone I know. It might not be perfect or beautiful, but I have yet to hear any suggestion for a replacement that has all the advantages of 9fat (simple, reliable, easily accessible from other systems, etc.) uriel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 20:37 ` Uriel @ 2009-08-27 21:09 ` Tim Newsham 2009-08-27 21:38 ` erik quanstrom 0 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: Tim Newsham @ 2009-08-27 21:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs > It has not been a problem for anyone I know. It might not be perfect > or beautiful, but I have yet to hear any suggestion for a replacement > that has all the advantages of 9fat (simple, reliable, easily > accessible from other systems, etc.) I think "easily accessible from other systems" should be removed from the list. There are alternatives, such as booting a live cd. Many other operating systems also keep their kernels on native filesystems and do not suffer because of it. > uriel Tim Newsham http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 21:09 ` Tim Newsham @ 2009-08-27 21:38 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 21:45 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-27 21:49 ` Tim Newsham 0 siblings, 2 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-27 21:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > > It has not been a problem for anyone I know. It might not be perfect > > or beautiful, but I have yet to hear any suggestion for a replacement > > that has all the advantages of 9fat (simple, reliable, easily > > accessible from other systems, etc.) > > I think "easily accessible from other systems" should be removed > from the list. There are alternatives, such as booting a live cd. > Many other operating systems also keep their kernels on native > filesystems and do not suffer because of it. i have found it convienent to be able to update a kernel from linux, osx, windows. i would imagine this is important for vm solutions, too. do you think it's preferable to build a live cd for this including the little bit prepared in another os? i've found live cds to be pretty annoying to maintain. - erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 21:38 ` erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-27 21:45 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-27 21:49 ` Tim Newsham 1 sibling, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: Iruata Souza @ 2009-08-27 21:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 6:38 PM, erik quanstrom<quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote: >> > It has not been a problem for anyone I know. It might not be perfect >> > or beautiful, but I have yet to hear any suggestion for a replacement >> > that has all the advantages of 9fat (simple, reliable, easily >> > accessible from other systems, etc.) >> >> I think "easily accessible from other systems" should be removed >> from the list. There are alternatives, such as booting a live cd. >> Many other operating systems also keep their kernels on native >> filesystems and do not suffer because of it. > > i have found it convienent to be able to update a kernel > from linux, osx, windows. i would imagine this is important > for vm solutions, too. do you think it's preferable to build > a live cd for this including the little bit prepared in another > os? i've found live cds to be pretty annoying to maintain. > as i said early in this thread, with 9null you kernel may live in any fs you like as long as Plan 9 has can read it. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 21:38 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 21:45 ` Iruata Souza @ 2009-08-27 21:49 ` Tim Newsham 2009-08-28 1:54 ` Federico G. Benavento 1 sibling, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: Tim Newsham @ 2009-08-27 21:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs > i have found it convienent to be able to update a kernel > from linux, osx, windows. i would imagine this is important > for vm solutions, too. do you think it's preferable to build > a live cd for this including the little bit prepared in another > os? i've found live cds to be pretty annoying to maintain. Can you explain the "VM solutions" point further? The current plan 9 install CD is already a live CD. I don't imagine this places an extra burden on whoever maintains it. Once you have a live CD that works with your system (ie. the same one you installed with), you don't really need to update it unless you change to a new filesystem not supported by the CD. > - erik Tim Newsham http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 21:49 ` Tim Newsham @ 2009-08-28 1:54 ` Federico G. Benavento 2009-08-28 4:38 ` ron minnich ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: Federico G. Benavento @ 2009-08-28 1:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs the problem comes when you just can't boot the CD! last month when erik and I got Plan 9 booting on this machine it was really convenient just to be able to copy 9load to a fat partition while I was running windows, reboot and see if it worked, I didn't even tried to load a kernel at that point because 9load didn't even see the disks. so, yes, 9fat helped, not because the kernel or Plan 9 lived there but because I could just copy the loader (9load) really fast. I talked some weeks ago about this with iru, because I really didn't see the point in getting rid of 9fat. I could achieve the same as I did by doing "copy 9load E:" on windows with this new approach, but I'd need to boot some linux live CD and dd my way out to put the new loader there which I'll be too hacky and I'd probably need a version of prepdisk for linux on that live cd as well, if I got it right. On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Tim Newsham<newsham@lava.net> wrote: >> i have found it convienent to be able to update a kernel >> from linux, osx, windows. i would imagine this is important >> for vm solutions, too. do you think it's preferable to build >> a live cd for this including the little bit prepared in another >> os? i've found live cds to be pretty annoying to maintain. > > Can you explain the "VM solutions" point further? > > The current plan 9 install CD is already a live CD. I don't imagine this > places an extra burden on whoever maintains it. Once you have a live CD that > works with your system (ie. the same one you installed with), you don't > really need to update it unless you change to a new filesystem not supported > by the CD. > >> - erik > > Tim Newsham > http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/ > > -- Federico G. Benavento ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 1:54 ` Federico G. Benavento @ 2009-08-28 4:38 ` ron minnich 2009-08-28 5:08 ` Federico G. Benavento 2009-08-28 5:23 ` ron minnich 2009-08-28 16:43 ` Tim Newsham 2 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2009-08-28 4:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Nothing prevents anyone from using 9fat or building on or changing iruatas work. It is there so go forth and hack. What is nice is his new pbs goes to 32 bit mode right away so hacking is easier than before. Ron On 8/27/09, Federico G. Benavento <benavento@gmail.com> wrote: > the problem comes when you just can't boot the CD! > > last month when erik and I got Plan 9 booting on this machine > it was really convenient just to be able to copy 9load to a > fat partition while I was running windows, reboot and see if > it worked, I didn't even tried to load a kernel at that point > because 9load didn't even see the disks. > > so, yes, 9fat helped, not because the kernel or Plan 9 lived there > but because I could just copy the loader (9load) really fast. > > I talked some weeks ago about this with iru, because I really didn't > see the point in getting rid of 9fat. > > I could achieve the same as I did by doing "copy 9load E:" on windows > with this new approach, but I'd need to boot some linux live CD > and dd my way out to put the new loader there which I'll be too > hacky and I'd probably need a version of prepdisk for linux > on that live cd as well, if I got it right. > > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Tim Newsham<newsham@lava.net> wrote: >>> i have found it convienent to be able to update a kernel >>> from linux, osx, windows. i would imagine this is important >>> for vm solutions, too. do you think it's preferable to build >>> a live cd for this including the little bit prepared in another >>> os? i've found live cds to be pretty annoying to maintain. >> >> Can you explain the "VM solutions" point further? >> >> The current plan 9 install CD is already a live CD. I don't imagine this >> places an extra burden on whoever maintains it. Once you have a live CD >> that >> works with your system (ie. the same one you installed with), you don't >> really need to update it unless you change to a new filesystem not >> supported >> by the CD. >> >>> - erik >> >> Tim Newsham >> http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/ >> >> > > > > -- > Federico G. Benavento > > -- Sent from my mobile device ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 4:38 ` ron minnich @ 2009-08-28 5:08 ` Federico G. Benavento 2009-08-28 5:24 ` ron minnich 0 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: Federico G. Benavento @ 2009-08-28 5:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs hola, > Nothing prevents anyone from using 9fat or building on or changing > iruatas work. It is there so go forth and hack. I really don't get this, I didn't criticize iru's work, I was just pointing how being able to put the loader in a fat partition was convenient to me, just that. -- Federico G. Benavento ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 5:08 ` Federico G. Benavento @ 2009-08-28 5:24 ` ron minnich 0 siblings, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2009-08-28 5:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:08 PM, Federico G. Benavento<benavento@gmail.com> wrote: > I really don't get this, I didn't criticize iru's work, I was just pointing how > being able to put the loader in a fat partition was convenient to me, > just that. I did not take it that way. Your point is a very important one. Thanks ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 1:54 ` Federico G. Benavento 2009-08-28 4:38 ` ron minnich @ 2009-08-28 5:23 ` ron minnich 2009-08-28 8:10 ` matt ` (3 more replies) 2009-08-28 16:43 ` Tim Newsham 2 siblings, 4 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2009-08-28 5:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Federico G. Benavento<benavento@gmail.com> wrote: > I could achieve the same as I did by doing "copy 9load E:" on windows > with this new approach, but I'd need to boot some linux live CD > and dd my way out to put the new loader there which I'll be too > hacky and I'd probably need a version of prepdisk for linux > on that live cd as well, if I got it right. yep, this is a good point. It's the same reason that Peter Anvin argued against using linux as a boot loader in place of grub or pxe or whatever. There are simple standards on booting PCs, and if you conform to them, you are more going to work in all cases. If you don't conform to them, there are more cases where you can't work. Your Vista example is a good case study. So the FAT partition is good when you want to interoperate. But as you point out, it's kind of 1/2 of a real fat partition, which means sometimes, even if it looks ok in vista or whatever, it's not really ok. It's not really possible to fit a true FAT file system handler in a 512 byte pbs. The Plan 9 pbs (and I assume most of them) are really a "find a file by name, get the offset, and just start loading contiguous data form whatever is at that offset in the partition until done". That's why there are things like install_grub, or lilo, or other such tools. If you delete and replace 9load and it ends up discontiguous, well, you may not be able to boot, hence the need to sometimes remove and replace all the files in the FAT. There are a number of reasons to like using a plan 9 kernel to boot your machine: drivers, native file systems, and so on. Interoperation with vista is not one of them. It may well be in the long term that the best way to remove 9load is to make Plan 9 grub-bootable. But 9null is a pretty interesting experiment, all things considered. And, it's there to hack. Grab the code and have it, maybe make it better or fit what you want better or show us all a better way to do things. ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 5:23 ` ron minnich @ 2009-08-28 8:10 ` matt 2009-08-28 11:06 ` Uriel ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: matt @ 2009-08-28 8:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs >the best way to remove 9load is to make Plan 9 grub-bootable. > > I don't know much about this subject but I already boot Plan9 using grub. You mean something more specific than chainloading I presume. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 5:23 ` ron minnich 2009-08-28 8:10 ` matt @ 2009-08-28 11:06 ` Uriel 2009-08-28 12:04 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-28 12:16 ` blstuart 2009-08-28 12:30 ` erik quanstrom 3 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: Uriel @ 2009-08-28 11:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 7:23 AM, ron minnich<rminnich@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Federico G. > Benavento<benavento@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I could achieve the same as I did by doing "copy 9load E:" on windows >> with this new approach, but I'd need to boot some linux live CD >> and dd my way out to put the new loader there which I'll be too >> hacky and I'd probably need a version of prepdisk for linux >> on that live cd as well, if I got it right. > > yep, this is a good point. It's the same reason that Peter Anvin > argued against using linux as a boot loader in place of grub or pxe or > whatever. There are simple standards on booting PCs, and if you > conform to them, you are more going to work in all cases. If you don't > conform to them, there are more cases where you can't work. Your Vista > example is a good case study. > > So the FAT partition is good when you want to interoperate. But as you > point out, it's kind of 1/2 of a real fat partition, which means > sometimes, even if it looks ok in vista or whatever, it's not really > ok. It's not really possible to fit a true FAT file system handler in > a 512 byte pbs. The Plan 9 pbs (and I assume most of them) are really > a "find a file by name, get the offset, and just start loading > contiguous data form whatever is at that offset in the partition until > done". That's why there are things like install_grub, or lilo, or > other such tools. If you delete and replace 9load and it ends up > discontiguous, well, you may not be able to boot, hence the need to > sometimes remove and replace all the files in the FAT. > > There are a number of reasons to like using a plan 9 kernel to boot > your machine: drivers, native file systems, and so on. Interoperation > with vista is not one of them. It may well be in the long term that > the best way to remove 9load is to make Plan 9 grub-bootable. You try to present this as if using a Plan 9 kernel to boot somehow precludes the use of the existing 9fat setup, this is not true, and the whole point of the original GSoC project was precisely that: to boot using a kernel without changing anything about 9fat and plan9.ini so we could have a drop in replacement for 9load. And given that such a setup would have all the advantages you list here, plus would retain the advantages people enjoy from 9fat, it is hard to understand why doing something else is such a great idea. uriel > > But 9null is a pretty interesting experiment, all things considered. > And, it's there to hack. Grab the code and have it, maybe make it > better or fit what you want better or show us all a better way to do > things. > > ron > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 11:06 ` Uriel @ 2009-08-28 12:04 ` Iruata Souza 0 siblings, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: Iruata Souza @ 2009-08-28 12:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:06 AM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 7:23 AM, ron minnich<rminnich@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Federico G. >> Benavento<benavento@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I could achieve the same as I did by doing "copy 9load E:" on windows >>> with this new approach, but I'd need to boot some linux live CD >>> and dd my way out to put the new loader there which I'll be too >>> hacky and I'd probably need a version of prepdisk for linux >>> on that live cd as well, if I got it right. >> >> yep, this is a good point. It's the same reason that Peter Anvin >> argued against using linux as a boot loader in place of grub or pxe or >> whatever. There are simple standards on booting PCs, and if you >> conform to them, you are more going to work in all cases. If you don't >> conform to them, there are more cases where you can't work. Your Vista >> example is a good case study. >> >> So the FAT partition is good when you want to interoperate. But as you >> point out, it's kind of 1/2 of a real fat partition, which means >> sometimes, even if it looks ok in vista or whatever, it's not really >> ok. It's not really possible to fit a true FAT file system handler in >> a 512 byte pbs. The Plan 9 pbs (and I assume most of them) are really >> a "find a file by name, get the offset, and just start loading >> contiguous data form whatever is at that offset in the partition until >> done". That's why there are things like install_grub, or lilo, or >> other such tools. If you delete and replace 9load and it ends up >> discontiguous, well, you may not be able to boot, hence the need to >> sometimes remove and replace all the files in the FAT. >> >> There are a number of reasons to like using a plan 9 kernel to boot >> your machine: drivers, native file systems, and so on. Interoperation >> with vista is not one of them. It may well be in the long term that >> the best way to remove 9load is to make Plan 9 grub-bootable. > > You try to present this as if using a Plan 9 kernel to boot somehow > precludes the use of the existing 9fat setup, this is not true, and > the whole point of the original GSoC project was precisely that: to > boot using a kernel without changing anything about 9fat and plan9.ini > so we could have a drop in replacement for 9load. > there was no 'without changing' anything. it was just to replace 9load. the project proposal was accepted without touching the 9fat subject. if it's not specified, it's open to discussion. > > And given that such a setup would have all the advantages you list > here, plus would retain the advantages people enjoy from 9fat, it is > hard to understand why doing something else is such a great idea. > this has been explained already: 9null does not care about the filesystem where the kernel lives, as long as Plan 9 knows how to mount it. if you like fat because of interoperability, that's ok, we have dossrv and 9null can use it. we simply don't require it. i don't see how fgb's solution would not work with 9null. i myself have setup a fossil disk for testing outside of the Plan 9 machine with 9null and it booted just fine. it would have been the same if i had setup a fat partition outside. iru ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 5:23 ` ron minnich 2009-08-28 8:10 ` matt 2009-08-28 11:06 ` Uriel @ 2009-08-28 12:16 ` blstuart 2009-08-28 12:43 ` Venkatesh Srinivas 2009-08-28 12:30 ` erik quanstrom 3 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: blstuart @ 2009-08-28 12:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > with vista is not one of them. It may well be in the long term that > the best way to remove 9load is to make Plan 9 grub-bootable. The -H5 option to 8l will generate an ELF image. I've used that to boot Inferno using pxelinux/mboot. I'm pretty sure a Plan9 image built using -H5 would be grub-bootable. BLS ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 12:16 ` blstuart @ 2009-08-28 12:43 ` Venkatesh Srinivas 2009-08-28 18:02 ` Brian L. Stuart 0 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: Venkatesh Srinivas @ 2009-08-28 12:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Did you use the plan 9 kencc to build that inferno kernel? As I understand, inferno's 8c doesn't have the H5 option... -- vs ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 12:43 ` Venkatesh Srinivas @ 2009-08-28 18:02 ` Brian L. Stuart 2009-08-28 19:08 ` Noah Evans 0 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: Brian L. Stuart @ 2009-08-28 18:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs > Did you use the plan 9 kencc to build > that inferno kernel? As I > understand, inferno's 8c doesn't have the H5 option... I used the versions with Inferno, except that I borrowed a couple files from Plan9's 8l to get the H5 support. And in case anyone's curious, I booted it with grub a little earlier today. So leaving aside the question of whether it's desirable, it's easily doable. BLS ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 18:02 ` Brian L. Stuart @ 2009-08-28 19:08 ` Noah Evans 2009-08-29 0:38 ` blstuart 0 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: Noah Evans @ 2009-08-28 19:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Can you get a native kernel working with qemu or parallels?the latest osx versions crash on inferno for me. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 28, 2009, at 8:02 PM, "Brian L. Stuart" <blstuart@bellsouth.net> wrote: >> Did you use the plan 9 kencc to build >> that inferno kernel? As I >> understand, inferno's 8c doesn't have the H5 option... > > I used the versions with Inferno, except that I borrowed > a couple files from Plan9's 8l to get the H5 support. > > And in case anyone's curious, I booted it with grub a > little earlier today. So leaving aside the question > of whether it's desirable, it's easily doable. > > BLS > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 19:08 ` Noah Evans @ 2009-08-29 0:38 ` blstuart 0 siblings, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: blstuart @ 2009-08-29 0:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > Can you get a native kernel working with qemu or parallels?the latest > osx versions crash on inferno for me. I don't have parallels available, but I have run it in qemu. However, it's been a while. Qemu is one of the "platforms" I used to test my native install CD image. I did find a few caveats. They're listed on: https://umdrive.memphis.edu/blstuart/htdocs/inf_nat_inst.html BTW, I hope to have another version available soon that includes pretty good USB support and some limited graphics. BLS ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 5:23 ` ron minnich ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2009-08-28 12:16 ` blstuart @ 2009-08-28 12:30 ` erik quanstrom 3 siblings, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-28 12:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > So the FAT partition is good when you want to interoperate. But as you > point out, it's kind of 1/2 of a real fat partition, which means > sometimes, even if it looks ok in vista or whatever, it's not really > ok. It's not really possible to fit a true FAT file system handler in > a 512 byte pbs. The Plan 9 pbs (and I assume most of them) are really > a "find a file by name, get the offset, and just start loading > contiguous data form whatever is at that offset in the partition until > done". That's why there are things like install_grub, or lilo, or > other such tools. If you delete and replace 9load and it ends up > discontiguous, well, you may not be able to boot, hence the need to > sometimes remove and replace all the files in the FAT. two points, the contiguous requirement is part of the microsoft standard: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/66530/en-us so i think it's a bit unfair to say this is "1/2 of a real fat partition". also, with dossrv, chmod +al will, if possible convert any file into a bootable file. removing all the files is somewhat of a hacky workaround, and dos format kind of beats around the bush. you tell it how much system space to reserve, rather than which files are system files. > It may well be in the long term that > the best way to remove 9load is to make Plan 9 grub-bootable. that doesn't sound very appealing. what advantages does grub have? would you require linux to have plan 9? - erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 1:54 ` Federico G. Benavento 2009-08-28 4:38 ` ron minnich 2009-08-28 5:23 ` ron minnich @ 2009-08-28 16:43 ` Tim Newsham 2009-08-28 16:52 ` matt 2009-08-28 16:52 ` Federico G. Benavento 2 siblings, 2 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: Tim Newsham @ 2009-08-28 16:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs > I could achieve the same as I did by doing "copy 9load E:" on windows > with this new approach, but I'd need to boot some linux live CD > and dd my way out to put the new loader there which I'll be too > hacky and I'd probably need a version of prepdisk for linux > on that live cd as well, if I got it right. You could just dd or rawrite from windows, as well. > Federico G. Benavento Tim Newsham http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 16:43 ` Tim Newsham @ 2009-08-28 16:52 ` matt 2009-08-28 16:52 ` Federico G. Benavento 1 sibling, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: matt @ 2009-08-28 16:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Tim Newsham wrote: > > You could just dd or rawrite from windows, as well. iirc you need to be an administrator and can turn on raw disk access, for which you get v. scary dialog boxes warning you not to do it that was on xp, I expect newer trash will be the same / worse ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 16:43 ` Tim Newsham 2009-08-28 16:52 ` matt @ 2009-08-28 16:52 ` Federico G. Benavento 1 sibling, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: Federico G. Benavento @ 2009-08-28 16:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs that's what I said... it's in the fragment you quoted anyways, I'm glad that iru heard what we had to say and we found a solution On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Tim Newsham<newsham@lava.net> wrote: >> I could achieve the same as I did by doing "copy 9load E:" on windows >> with this new approach, but I'd need to boot some linux live CD >> and dd my way out to put the new loader there which I'll be too >> hacky and I'd probably need a version of prepdisk for linux >> on that live cd as well, if I got it right. > > You could just dd or rawrite from windows, as well. > >> Federico G. Benavento > > Tim Newsham > http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/ > > -- Federico G. Benavento ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 20:14 ` erik quanstrom ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2009-08-27 20:37 ` Uriel @ 2009-08-28 7:59 ` Gorka Guardiola 2009-08-28 8:00 ` Gorka Guardiola 3 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: Gorka Guardiola @ 2009-08-28 7:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:14 PM, erik quanstrom<quanstro@coraid.com> wrote: >> Do we stick with that file format forever? is it perfect and never to >> be changed? > > would it be fair to ask a the same question from a little > different perspective? > > could someone explain what the disadvantages and problems > with 9fat are? i'm asking out of ignorance, since 9fat hasn't > been a problem for me. > That it is too complicated to pares in 512 bytes. -- - curiosity sKilled the cat ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 7:59 ` Gorka Guardiola @ 2009-08-28 8:00 ` Gorka Guardiola 2009-08-28 8:54 ` hiro 0 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: Gorka Guardiola @ 2009-08-28 8:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Gorka Guardiola<paurea@gmail.com> wrote: >> could someone explain what the disadvantages and problems >> with 9fat are? i'm asking out of ignorance, since 9fat hasn't >> been a problem for me. >> > > That it is too complicated to pares in 512 bytes. > s/pares/parse/ -- - curiosity sKilled the cat ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 8:00 ` Gorka Guardiola @ 2009-08-28 8:54 ` hiro 2009-08-28 9:08 ` Venkatesh Srinivas 2009-08-28 15:15 ` David Leimbach 0 siblings, 2 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: hiro @ 2009-08-28 8:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs perhaps we should try to boot plan 9 from a linux kernel? Sounds great to me... this probably makes me a troll... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 8:54 ` hiro @ 2009-08-28 9:08 ` Venkatesh Srinivas 2009-08-28 11:13 ` matt 2009-08-28 15:15 ` David Leimbach 1 sibling, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: Venkatesh Srinivas @ 2009-08-28 9:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 4:54 AM, hiro<23hiro@googlemail.com> wrote: > perhaps we should try to boot plan 9 from a linux kernel? Sounds great to me... > > this probably makes me a troll... > I hear ron minnich did that with his lguest port. Does that make him a troll? -- vs ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 9:08 ` Venkatesh Srinivas @ 2009-08-28 11:13 ` matt 2009-08-28 12:04 ` erik quanstrom 0 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: matt @ 2009-08-28 11:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Venkatesh Srinivas wrote: >On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 4:54 AM, hiro<23hiro@googlemail.com> wrote: > > >>perhaps we should try to boot plan 9 from a linux kernel? Sounds great to me... >> >>this probably makes me a troll... >> >> >> > >I hear ron minnich did that with his lguest port. Does that make him a troll? > >-- vs > > > yes, he got us interested in something vicariously and then cast it aside :) What you gonna do when MS knocks on the door for their FAT patent license fee http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/02/microsoft-sues-tomtom-over-fat-patents-in-linux-based-device.ars though maybe the inability to do fat32 will save you. Editing plan9.ini on dos has saved me more than once, but back when I was using a floppy (a BSDi labelled one at that) and its small size has also hurt me before now too. I like the sound of the sector 1 idea, I'm sure making a tool to r/w it in Linux / whatever can't be hard. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 11:13 ` matt @ 2009-08-28 12:04 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-28 12:50 ` matt 0 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-28 12:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > What you gonna do when MS knocks on the door for their FAT patent > license fee > > http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/02/microsoft-sues-tomtom-over-fat-patents-in-linux-based-device.ars i love it. we have complaining that fat doesn't do more than 8.3 and trolling that there's a patent liability for doing more than 8.3 within 24 hrs. just to be clear. fat itself is not patented. just some particular aspects of a 8.3 workaround. > though maybe the inability to do fat32 will save you. dossrv and 9load both read fat32. > I like the sound of the sector 1 idea, I'm sure making a tool to r/w it > in Linux / whatever can't be hard. i think that's the point of using fat. no tools required. you're already in a pickle if you've gotten to this point. consider the acer inspire machine this week that - erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 12:04 ` erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-28 12:50 ` matt 2009-08-28 14:54 ` Iruata Souza 0 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: matt @ 2009-08-28 12:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs erik quanstrom wrote: >i love it. we have complaining that fat doesn't do more >than 8.3 and trolling that there's a patent liability for >doing more than 8.3 within 24 hrs. > > thanks but I'm not trolling, not complaining >just to be clear. fat itself is not patented. just some >particular aspects of a 8.3 workaround. > > > >>though maybe the inability to do fat32 will save you. >> >> > >dossrv and 9load both read fat32. > > I was refering to format not dossrv BUGS Format can create FAT12 and FAT16 file systems, but not FAT32 file systems. The boot block can only read from FAT12 and FAT16 file systems. > > >>I like the sound of the sector 1 idea, I'm sure making a tool to r/w it >>in Linux / whatever can't be hard. >> >> > >i think that's the point of using fat. no tools required. > > No tools except a second OS installed on your machine / one you can plug your disk in to >you're already in a pickle if you've gotten to this point. >consider the acer inspire machine this week that > > but as you say here, if you're having trouble, you need something to help you. The great help you've been giving people here was via iso files Anyway, there are good arguments on both sides. There's only one way to solve this : FIGHT ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 12:50 ` matt @ 2009-08-28 14:54 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-28 15:11 ` Iruata Souza ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: Iruata Souza @ 2009-08-28 14:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 9:50 AM, matt<maht-9fans@maht0x0r.net> wrote: > erik quanstrom wrote: > >> i love it. we have complaining that fat doesn't do more >> than 8.3 and trolling that there's a patent liability for >> doing more than 8.3 within 24 hrs. >> > > thanks but I'm not trolling, not complaining > >> just to be clear. fat itself is not patented. just some >> particular aspects of a 8.3 workaround. >> >> >>> >>> though maybe the inability to do fat32 will save you. >>> >> >> dossrv and 9load both read fat32. >> > > I was refering to format not dossrv > > BUGS > Format can create FAT12 and FAT16 file systems, but not > FAT32 file systems. The boot block can only read from FAT12 > and FAT16 file systems. > >> >>> >>> I like the sound of the sector 1 idea, I'm sure making a tool to r/w it >>> in Linux / whatever can't be hard. >>> >> >> i think that's the point of using fat. no tools required. >> > > No tools except a second OS installed on your machine / one you can plug > your disk in to > >> you're already in a pickle if you've gotten to this point. >> consider the acer inspire machine this week that > > but as you say here, if you're having trouble, you need something to help > you. The great help you've been giving people here was via iso files > > Anyway, there are good arguments on both sides. There's only one way to > solve this : > > FIGHT > i fought myself. pbs32 (9null's pbs) now works with 9fat without caring about it. it loops reading a block and checking for the a.out(8) signature. if the 9pcload is on 9fat, not a problem anymore. iru ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 14:54 ` Iruata Souza @ 2009-08-28 15:11 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-28 16:01 ` Dave Eckhardt 2009-08-28 23:40 ` Uriel 2 siblings, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: Iruata Souza @ 2009-08-28 15:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Iruata Souza<iru.muzgo@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 9:50 AM, matt<maht-9fans@maht0x0r.net> wrote: >> erik quanstrom wrote: >> >>> i love it. we have complaining that fat doesn't do more >>> than 8.3 and trolling that there's a patent liability for >>> doing more than 8.3 within 24 hrs. >>> >> >> thanks but I'm not trolling, not complaining >> >>> just to be clear. fat itself is not patented. just some >>> particular aspects of a 8.3 workaround. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> though maybe the inability to do fat32 will save you. >>>> >>> >>> dossrv and 9load both read fat32. >>> >> >> I was refering to format not dossrv >> >> BUGS >> Format can create FAT12 and FAT16 file systems, but not >> FAT32 file systems. The boot block can only read from FAT12 >> and FAT16 file systems. >> >>> >>>> >>>> I like the sound of the sector 1 idea, I'm sure making a tool to r/w it >>>> in Linux / whatever can't be hard. >>>> >>> >>> i think that's the point of using fat. no tools required. >>> >> >> No tools except a second OS installed on your machine / one you can plug >> your disk in to >> >>> you're already in a pickle if you've gotten to this point. >>> consider the acer inspire machine this week that >> >> but as you say here, if you're having trouble, you need something to help >> you. The great help you've been giving people here was via iso files >> >> Anyway, there are good arguments on both sides. There's only one way to >> solve this : >> >> FIGHT >> > > i fought myself. > pbs32 (9null's pbs) now works with 9fat without caring about it. > it loops reading a block and checking for the a.out(8) signature. if > the 9pcload is on 9fat, not a problem anymore. > a.out(6), sorry ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 14:54 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-28 15:11 ` Iruata Souza @ 2009-08-28 16:01 ` Dave Eckhardt 2009-08-28 23:40 ` Uriel 2 siblings, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: Dave Eckhardt @ 2009-08-28 16:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs > pbs32 (9null's pbs) now works with 9fat without caring about it. > it loops reading a block and checking for the a.out(8) signature. > if the 9pcload is on 9fat, not a problem anymore. Tweeeet! 5-yard penalty for making something work better instead of complaining! Dave Eckhardt ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 14:54 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-28 15:11 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-28 16:01 ` Dave Eckhardt @ 2009-08-28 23:40 ` Uriel 2009-08-28 23:54 ` Noah Evans 2 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: Uriel @ 2009-08-28 23:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Iruata Souza<iru.muzgo@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 9:50 AM, matt<maht-9fans@maht0x0r.net> wrote: >> FIGHT >> > > i fought myself. > pbs32 (9null's pbs) now works with 9fat without caring about it. > it loops reading a block and checking for the a.out(8) signature. if > the 9pcload is on 9fat, not a problem anymore. Wonderful! Seems that everyone won the fight in the end. Perhaps fighting is not as useless as some make it? Peace uriel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 23:40 ` Uriel @ 2009-08-28 23:54 ` Noah Evans 0 siblings, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: Noah Evans @ 2009-08-28 23:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs One way of phrasing it: "I usually need 9fat to choose which kernel I'm going to use depending on the circumstances, is there anyway that I could reincorporate 9fat or something like it? What do I need to do to make it possible?" another way: "You losers never do anything right, where's my 9fat?" Which is more productive? On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 1:40 AM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Iruata Souza<iru.muzgo@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 9:50 AM, matt<maht-9fans@maht0x0r.net> wrote: >>> FIGHT >>> >> >> i fought myself. >> pbs32 (9null's pbs) now works with 9fat without caring about it. >> it loops reading a block and checking for the a.out(8) signature. if >> the 9pcload is on 9fat, not a problem anymore. > > Wonderful! > > Seems that everyone won the fight in the end. > > Perhaps fighting is not as useless as some make it? > > Peace > > uriel > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 8:54 ` hiro 2009-08-28 9:08 ` Venkatesh Srinivas @ 2009-08-28 15:15 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-28 15:19 ` erik quanstrom 1 sibling, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: David Leimbach @ 2009-08-28 15:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 261 bytes --] On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 1:54 AM, hiro <23hiro@googlemail.com> wrote: > perhaps we should try to boot plan 9 from a linux kernel? Sounds great to > me... > > this probably makes me a troll... > I'm pretty sure Ron has done that too... from LinuxBIOS. [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 524 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 15:15 ` David Leimbach @ 2009-08-28 15:19 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-28 15:24 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-28 15:31 ` ron minnich 0 siblings, 2 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-28 15:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > I'm pretty sure Ron has done that too... from LinuxBIOS. i'm pretty sure that coreboot neé linuxbios is not linux. - erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 15:19 ` erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-28 15:24 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-28 15:33 ` ron minnich 2009-08-28 15:31 ` ron minnich 1 sibling, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: David Leimbach @ 2009-08-28 15:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 492 bytes --] On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:19 AM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>wrote: > > I'm pretty sure Ron has done that too... from LinuxBIOS. > > i'm pretty sure that coreboot neé linuxbios is not linux. > Could be, I've never had the luxury of trying it all out... however I thought a minimal linux from coreboot/linuxbios (I think it was called linuxbios when this was tried) could kexec plan 9. I may be remembering incorrectly though (as usual). Dave > > - erik > > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 999 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 15:24 ` David Leimbach @ 2009-08-28 15:33 ` ron minnich 2009-08-28 15:37 ` David Leimbach 0 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2009-08-28 15:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:24 AM, David Leimbach<leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote: > Could be, I've never had the luxury of trying it all out... however I > thought a minimal linux from coreboot/linuxbios (I think it was called > linuxbios when this was tried) could kexec plan 9. Actually i wrote something in 1999 called lobos that preceded kexec, and maybe even /dev/reboot (not sure). I still recall a linux groupie telling me that "Linus would never accept linux rebooting linux into the kernel" ... ha! I've got a reasonable summary article of kernels booting kernels -- all 5 versions of them -- in some cluster 200x paper. It concluded that Plan 9 was the cleanest of the lot. Surprise! ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 15:33 ` ron minnich @ 2009-08-28 15:37 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-28 15:46 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-28 15:56 ` ron minnich 0 siblings, 2 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: David Leimbach @ 2009-08-28 15:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1017 bytes --] On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:33 AM, ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:24 AM, David Leimbach<leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Could be, I've never had the luxury of trying it all out... however I > > thought a minimal linux from coreboot/linuxbios (I think it was called > > linuxbios when this was tried) could kexec plan 9. > > Actually i wrote something in 1999 called lobos that preceded kexec, > and maybe even /dev/reboot (not sure). > > I still recall a linux groupie telling me that "Linus would never > accept linux rebooting linux into the kernel" ... ha! > > I've got a reasonable summary article of kernels booting kernels -- > all 5 versions of them -- in some cluster 200x paper. It concluded > that Plan 9 was the cleanest of the lot. Surprise! Did that pre-date the "two kernel monte" that used to be used on Scyld's "Beowulf" thing? Also, Eric, the 9atom.iso works on my older AMD machine for installation! THANKS! :-) > > > ron > > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1598 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 15:37 ` David Leimbach @ 2009-08-28 15:46 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-28 16:23 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-28 15:56 ` ron minnich 1 sibling, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-28 15:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > Also, Eric, the 9atom.iso works on my older AMD machine for installation! > THANKS! :-) hey! back to the original story line. that's great, and you're welcome. i'd encourage anyone to report on your success or failure with 9atom offline. the goal is to get everything that should work working. - erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 15:46 ` erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-28 16:23 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-28 16:37 ` matt 2009-08-29 17:20 ` David Leimbach 0 siblings, 2 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: David Leimbach @ 2009-08-28 16:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 636 bytes --] On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:46 AM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>wrote: > > Also, Eric, the 9atom.iso works on my older AMD machine for installation! > > THANKS! :-) > > hey! back to the original story line. that's great, and > you're welcome. i'd encourage anyone to report on > your success or failure with 9atom offline. > the goal is to get everything that should work working. > > - erik > > To further report the machine seems to be running after installation quite "snappily" though I seem to have messed something up and get a lot of messages about failed venti writes, due to a lack of a connection. [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1025 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 16:23 ` David Leimbach @ 2009-08-28 16:37 ` matt 2009-08-28 17:39 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-29 17:20 ` David Leimbach 1 sibling, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: matt @ 2009-08-28 16:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs > > To further report the machine seems to be running after installation > quite "snappily" though I seem to have messed something up and get a > lot of messages about failed venti writes, due to a lack of a connection. > > > venti=/dev/sdC0/venti or venti=#S/sdC0/venti in plan9.ini not sure which is best, I have the former and it works but the latter was already in my plan9.ini and that didn't work but that might be something else and I've never experimented after it worked :) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 16:37 ` matt @ 2009-08-28 17:39 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-28 17:53 ` erik quanstrom 0 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: David Leimbach @ 2009-08-28 17:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 755 bytes --] On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 9:37 AM, matt <maht-9fans@maht0x0r.net> wrote: > > >> To further report the machine seems to be running after installation quite >> "snappily" though I seem to have messed something up and get a lot of >> messages about failed venti writes, due to a lack of a connection. >> >> >> >> > venti=/dev/sdC0/venti > or > venti=#S/sdC0/venti > > in plan9.ini > not sure which is best, I have the former and it works but the latter was > already in my plan9.ini and that didn't work but that might be something > else and I've never experimented after it worked :) > Thanks with 9atom, I just re-installed and installed a venti+fossil :-). That got rid of the messages, and I think I wanted to have venti anyhow. [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1185 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 17:39 ` David Leimbach @ 2009-08-28 17:53 ` erik quanstrom 0 siblings, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-28 17:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > > venti=/dev/sdC0/venti > > or > > venti=#S/sdC0/venti > > > > in plan9.ini > > not sure which is best, I have the former and it works but the latter was > > already in my plan9.ini and that didn't work but that might be something > > else and I've never experimented after it worked :) > > > > Thanks with 9atom, I just re-installed and installed a venti+fossil :-). > That got rid of the messages, and I think I wanted to have venti anyhow. great! just as an aside, 9load-e820 contains a hack which allows one to use bootdev and bootpath as replaceable parameters. if venti is on your boot disk, you could say venti=bootpath/venti the mechanism behind this needs to be fixed, but i've enjoyed not working about which sata port the cdrom or boot disk is plugged into. - erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 16:23 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-28 16:37 ` matt @ 2009-08-29 17:20 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-29 17:25 ` erik quanstrom 1 sibling, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: David Leimbach @ 2009-08-29 17:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1156 bytes --] On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 9:23 AM, David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:46 AM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>wrote: > >> > Also, Eric, the 9atom.iso works on my older AMD machine for >> installation! >> > THANKS! :-) >> >> hey! back to the original story line. that's great, and >> you're welcome. i'd encourage anyone to report on >> your success or failure with 9atom offline. >> the goal is to get everything that should work working. >> >> - erik >> >> > To further report the machine seems to be running after installation quite > "snappily" though I seem to have messed something up and get a lot of > messages about failed venti writes, due to a lack of a connection. > Now that I've had a chance to really examine the system, I'm noticing a rather high interrupt count (1584), and I'm not exactly sure how to figure out what's triggering them. I did not install venti. I just configured my ip address for DHCP, and I've got aux/timesync running (I think that was suspect before for some reason). Stats shows interrupts as a solid rectangle of activity all the time. [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1865 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-29 17:20 ` David Leimbach @ 2009-08-29 17:25 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-29 17:39 ` David Leimbach 0 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-29 17:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > Now that I've had a chance to really examine the system, I'm noticing a > rather high interrupt count (1584), and I'm not exactly sure how to figure > out what's triggering them. i set HZ=1000. so that accounts for 1000 of them. i've also modified /dev/irqalloc to count up the interrupts, so you should get a rough idea of which irqs are responsible. i say rough because chaned interrupts can confuse the matter a bit. > I did not install venti. I just configured my ip address for DHCP, and I've > got aux/timesync running (I think that was suspect before for some reason). > Stats shows interrupts as a solid rectangle of activity all the time. i get that too from stats. it's just tuned to HZ=100. the reason for the increase is so that millisecond sleeps can work a bit better. on all the systems i use, the overhead is not worth worring about. - erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-29 17:25 ` erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-29 17:39 ` David Leimbach 0 siblings, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: David Leimbach @ 2009-08-29 17:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1219 bytes --] On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 10:25 AM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>wrote: > > Now that I've had a chance to really examine the system, I'm noticing a > > rather high interrupt count (1584), and I'm not exactly sure how to > figure > > out what's triggering them. > > i set HZ=1000. so that accounts for 1000 of them. i've also modified > /dev/irqalloc to count up the interrupts, so you should get a rough idea > of which irqs are responsible. i say rough because chaned interrupts > can confuse the matter a bit. > > > I did not install venti. I just configured my ip address for DHCP, and > I've > > got aux/timesync running (I think that was suspect before for some > reason). > > Stats shows interrupts as a solid rectangle of activity all the time. > > i get that too from stats. it's just tuned to HZ=100. the reason for the > increase is so that millisecond sleeps can work a bit better. on all the > systems i use, the overhead is not worth worring about. > Ah, I see so these are just normal interrupts of a healthy beating heart of a system. :-) I was a little concerned I had configured something incorrectly. Thanks for the explanation. > > - erik > > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1822 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 15:37 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-28 15:46 ` erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-28 15:56 ` ron minnich 1 sibling, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2009-08-28 15:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:37 AM, David Leimbach<leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote: > Did that pre-date the "two kernel monte" that used to be used on Scyld's > "Beowulf" thing? I think Eric Hendriks and I started development at the same time, but mine was working first. No longer sure. But Biederman's code won out, and is in the kernel. ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 15:19 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-28 15:24 ` David Leimbach @ 2009-08-28 15:31 ` ron minnich 2009-08-28 15:31 ` ron minnich 1 sibling, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2009-08-28 15:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:19 AM, erik quanstrom<quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote: >> I'm pretty sure Ron has done that too... from LinuxBIOS. > > i'm pretty sure that coreboot neé linuxbios is not linux. it was. It is not any longer. But for the first year of our existence, 1999-2000, linuxbios really was linux. But then linux got big, and that was that. ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 15:31 ` ron minnich @ 2009-08-28 15:31 ` ron minnich 2009-08-28 15:35 ` erik quanstrom 0 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2009-08-28 15:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:31 AM, ron minnich<rminnich@gmail.com> wrote: > it was. It is not any longer. But for the first year of our existence, > 1999-2000, linuxbios really was linux. plus some special extra bits, of course ... ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-28 15:31 ` ron minnich @ 2009-08-28 15:35 ` erik quanstrom 0 siblings, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-28 15:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > > it was. It is not any longer. But for the first year of our existence, > > 1999-2000, linuxbios really was linux. > > plus some special extra bits, of course ... even in those days, linux was quite large. wasn't most of it just dead weight? - erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 18:40 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-27 18:48 ` Uriel @ 2009-08-27 19:07 ` Tim Newsham 2009-08-27 19:19 ` Iruata Souza 1 sibling, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: Tim Newsham @ 2009-08-27 19:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs > for the ones interested, the code is at http://src.oitobits.net/9null. > i'm writing a README explaining how to compile and install. Are there plans for this to get folded into the mainline? > iru Tim Newsham http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 19:07 ` Tim Newsham @ 2009-08-27 19:19 ` Iruata Souza 0 siblings, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: Iruata Souza @ 2009-08-27 19:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:07 PM, Tim Newsham<newsham@lava.net> wrote: >> for the ones interested, the code is at http://src.oitobits.net/9null. >> i'm writing a README explaining how to compile and install. > > Are there plans for this to get folded into the mainline? > I wrote it with the hope of getting it into the mainline, so the choice is up to people with access to the labs. iru ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 16:51 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-27 17:05 ` ron minnich @ 2009-08-27 18:01 ` erik quanstrom 1 sibling, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-27 18:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > I think there's work going on to use plan 9 to load plan 9 (maybe?) to > replace 9load. However, is there any chance of getting your 9load in the > mainline if/once people determine it to support more hardware? i would hope so. it's pretty closely tied to the sd stuff i've been working on. it does have a few other things, too. the nifty trick is to be able to automaticly remember the bootdev so that bootdev can be used as a replacable parameter. this allows a single plan9.ini to be able to boot from sdC0 sdD0 sdE1 or whatever. - erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 16:16 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 16:51 ` David Leimbach @ 2009-08-27 19:06 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-27 20:20 ` erik quanstrom 1 sibling, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: David Leimbach @ 2009-08-27 19:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1127 bytes --] On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:16 AM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>wrote: > > 2009/8/26 erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>: > > > it contains all the changes from the last 10 days. > > > should fix all reported problems, except béla's. > > > > Could you post the link? I am new to this list and plan9, and i can > > not find a 9atom.iso, but a plan9.iso.bz2 [1] > > It would also be helpful for me reading some introductory material, i > > guess i can find it, but if you know some reference i would appreciate > > it. > > the link is > ftp://ftp.quanstro.net/other/9atom.iso.bz2 > cf819b70c90cedc39e305fb57d38f5df37302f84 Aug 26 09:13 > 9atom.iso.bz2 I really don't understand why, from home or work, I can't download this thing... cf819b70c90cedc39e305fb57d38f5df37302f84 Is the checksum I'm getting. When I download via a web browser it gets to the last bit of the data, and craps out. When I use an ftp client, it claims it is complete, but then gets the wrong checksum. I'm totally baffled. Is there somewhere else I can try to pull this from? Dave [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2946 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 19:06 ` David Leimbach @ 2009-08-27 20:20 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 20:35 ` Lyndon Nerenberg 2009-08-27 20:51 ` David Leimbach 0 siblings, 2 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-27 20:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > I really don't understand why, from home or work, I can't download this > thing... > > cf819b70c90cedc39e305fb57d38f5df37302f84 > > Is the checksum I'm getting. that's the same checksum i posted. i guess i don't understand the problem. the file size is 88153831. > When I download via a web browser it gets to the last bit of the data, and > craps out. When I use an ftp client, it claims it is complete, but then > gets the wrong checksum. > > I'm totally baffled. Is there somewhere else I can try to pull this from? no alternate locations. sorry. - erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 20:20 ` erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-27 20:35 ` Lyndon Nerenberg 2009-08-27 20:51 ` David Leimbach 1 sibling, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: Lyndon Nerenberg @ 2009-08-27 20:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > no alternate locations. sorry. You sure you don't want me to mirror this stuff? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 20:20 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 20:35 ` Lyndon Nerenberg @ 2009-08-27 20:51 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-27 20:59 ` erik quanstrom 1 sibling, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: David Leimbach @ 2009-08-27 20:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 856 bytes --] On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 1:20 PM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>wrote: > > I really don't understand why, from home or work, I can't download this > > thing... > > > > cf819b70c90cedc39e305fb57d38f5df37302f84 > > > > Is the checksum I'm getting. > > that's the same checksum i posted. i guess i don't understand > the problem. the file size is 88153831. Yeah, I realized that after I posted I sent the wrong checksum. e4441484b67be72ad0fd62cc828052f6 9atom.iso.bz2 is what I got. > > > > When I download via a web browser it gets to the last bit of the data, > and > > craps out. When I use an ftp client, it claims it is complete, but then > > gets the wrong checksum. > > > > I'm totally baffled. Is there somewhere else I can try to pull this > from? > > no alternate locations. sorry. > > - erik > > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1503 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 20:51 ` David Leimbach @ 2009-08-27 20:59 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 21:43 ` David Leimbach 0 siblings, 1 reply; 92+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-27 20:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > Yeah, I realized that after I posted I sent the wrong checksum. > e4441484b67be72ad0fd62cc828052f6 9atom.iso.bz2 > > is what I got. that's the proper md5sum. i posed the sha1sum. maybe i didn't make that clear. - erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 20:59 ` erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-27 21:43 ` David Leimbach 0 siblings, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: David Leimbach @ 2009-08-27 21:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 347 bytes --] On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 1:59 PM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>wrote: > > Yeah, I realized that after I posted I sent the wrong checksum. > > e4441484b67be72ad0fd62cc828052f6 9atom.iso.bz2 > > > > is what I got. > > that's the proper md5sum. i posed the sha1sum. > maybe i didn't make that clear. > > - erik > > argh... :-( [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 669 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso 2009-08-27 15:34 ` Hector Oron 2009-08-27 16:16 ` erik quanstrom @ 2009-08-27 17:06 ` Lyndon Nerenberg 1 sibling, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread From: Lyndon Nerenberg @ 2009-08-27 17:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans There is a searchable mailing list archive at http://9fans/net/archive that's quite useful. --lyndon ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
@ 2009-10-12 1:43 erik quanstrom
0 siblings, 0 replies; 92+ messages in thread
From: erik quanstrom @ 2009-10-12 1:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
> great! just as an aside, 9load-e820 contains a hack which
> allows one to use bootdev and bootpath as replaceable
> parameters. if venti is on your boot disk, you could say
>
> venti=bootpath/venti
>
> the mechanism behind this needs to be fixed, but i've
> enjoyed not working about which sata port the cdrom
> or boot disk is plugged into.
the mechanism has now been fixed and all assignments
in plan9.ini become replacable parameters. a $ is used to
indicate a variable indirection. 9load will assign bootdev
and bootpath automaticly as a convience. e.g. sdE0 and
#S/sdE0. our previous example should now read
venti=$bootpath/venti
(the previous example will temporarly be accepted.)
there are a few other things along for the ride.
if you are using 9load menus, you can add 9load variables
by typing them in like this at the menu prompt.
a console=0 b19200
one could remove the debug option from the 9atom cd
knowing that one could always enter
a *debug=1
at the menu.
added bonus: small corrections to the e820 scan.
- erik
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 92+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2009-10-12 1:43 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 92+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2009-08-26 13:32 [9fans] new 9atom.iso erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 15:34 ` Hector Oron 2009-08-27 16:16 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 16:51 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-27 17:05 ` ron minnich 2009-08-27 17:07 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-27 17:24 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 18:26 ` Uriel 2009-08-27 18:39 ` ron minnich 2009-08-27 18:40 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-27 18:48 ` Uriel 2009-08-27 18:56 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-27 18:57 ` ron minnich 2009-08-27 19:07 ` Uriel 2009-08-27 19:17 ` ron minnich 2009-08-27 19:27 ` Uriel 2009-08-27 19:34 ` ron minnich 2009-08-27 20:35 ` Uriel 2009-08-27 20:46 ` ron minnich 2009-08-27 21:57 ` Steve Simon 2009-08-27 22:05 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-27 22:18 ` Christopher Nielsen 2009-08-27 22:30 ` tlaronde 2009-08-28 1:56 ` Federico G. Benavento 2009-08-28 2:29 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 20:14 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 20:24 ` ron minnich 2009-08-27 20:28 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-27 21:41 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 21:46 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-27 20:37 ` Uriel 2009-08-27 21:09 ` Tim Newsham 2009-08-27 21:38 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 21:45 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-27 21:49 ` Tim Newsham 2009-08-28 1:54 ` Federico G. Benavento 2009-08-28 4:38 ` ron minnich 2009-08-28 5:08 ` Federico G. Benavento 2009-08-28 5:24 ` ron minnich 2009-08-28 5:23 ` ron minnich 2009-08-28 8:10 ` matt 2009-08-28 11:06 ` Uriel 2009-08-28 12:04 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-28 12:16 ` blstuart 2009-08-28 12:43 ` Venkatesh Srinivas 2009-08-28 18:02 ` Brian L. Stuart 2009-08-28 19:08 ` Noah Evans 2009-08-29 0:38 ` blstuart 2009-08-28 12:30 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-28 16:43 ` Tim Newsham 2009-08-28 16:52 ` matt 2009-08-28 16:52 ` Federico G. Benavento 2009-08-28 7:59 ` Gorka Guardiola 2009-08-28 8:00 ` Gorka Guardiola 2009-08-28 8:54 ` hiro 2009-08-28 9:08 ` Venkatesh Srinivas 2009-08-28 11:13 ` matt 2009-08-28 12:04 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-28 12:50 ` matt 2009-08-28 14:54 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-28 15:11 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-28 16:01 ` Dave Eckhardt 2009-08-28 23:40 ` Uriel 2009-08-28 23:54 ` Noah Evans 2009-08-28 15:15 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-28 15:19 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-28 15:24 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-28 15:33 ` ron minnich 2009-08-28 15:37 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-28 15:46 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-28 16:23 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-28 16:37 ` matt 2009-08-28 17:39 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-28 17:53 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-29 17:20 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-29 17:25 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-29 17:39 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-28 15:56 ` ron minnich 2009-08-28 15:31 ` ron minnich 2009-08-28 15:31 ` ron minnich 2009-08-28 15:35 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 19:07 ` Tim Newsham 2009-08-27 19:19 ` Iruata Souza 2009-08-27 18:01 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 19:06 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-27 20:20 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 20:35 ` Lyndon Nerenberg 2009-08-27 20:51 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-27 20:59 ` erik quanstrom 2009-08-27 21:43 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-27 17:06 ` Lyndon Nerenberg 2009-10-12 1:43 erik quanstrom
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).