9front - general discussion about 9front
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
* [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle
@ 2021-03-03 11:10 Daniel Morandini
  2021-03-03 11:42 ` kemal
  2021-03-03 16:05 ` fulton
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Daniel Morandini @ 2021-03-03 11:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

Hi folks,
does any of you know about a supported wifi dongle for a rpi4? I
checked out "known working hw" and “networking" in fqa, but found
no helpful information.

Thanks,
have a nice day

dan

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle
  2021-03-03 11:10 [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle Daniel Morandini
@ 2021-03-03 11:42 ` kemal
  2021-03-03 12:17   ` hiro
  2021-03-03 16:05 ` fulton
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: kemal @ 2021-03-03 11:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

> Hi folks,
> does any of you know about a supported wifi dongle for a rpi4? I
> checked out "known working hw" and “networking" in fqa, but found
> no helpful information.

to my knowledge, 9front does not support usb wifi dongles.

kemal


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle
  2021-03-03 11:42 ` kemal
@ 2021-03-03 12:17   ` hiro
  2021-03-03 14:07     ` Daniel Morandini
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-03-03 12:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

correct. last i checked there were no viable usb wifi chipsets worth
supporting (i.e. both modern enough, and with documentation,
preferably without binary blob firmware)

On 3/3/21, kemal <kemali13@protonmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>> does any of you know about a supported wifi dongle for a rpi4? I
>> checked out "known working hw" and “networking" in fqa, but found
>> no helpful information.
>
> to my knowledge, 9front does not support usb wifi dongles.
>
> kemal
>
>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle
  2021-03-03 12:17   ` hiro
@ 2021-03-03 14:07     ` Daniel Morandini
  2021-03-03 14:43       ` Stanley Lieber
                         ` (3 more replies)
  0 siblings, 4 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Daniel Morandini @ 2021-03-03 14:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

Hi hiro and kemal,
> correct. last i checked there were no viable usb wifi chipsets worth
> supporting (i.e. both modern enough, and with documentation,
> preferably without binary blob firmware)
I was suspecting it. I tried to find one with these requirements too
without luck.

I guess I have 2 options now:
- buy a long ethernet wire and hole some walls, or
- build wifi repeater with ethernet port.

Any suggestion/alternative approach?

dan

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle
  2021-03-03 14:07     ` Daniel Morandini
@ 2021-03-03 14:43       ` Stanley Lieber
  2021-03-03 14:55         ` hiro
  2021-03-03 16:56       ` Julien Blanchard
                         ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Stanley Lieber @ 2021-03-03 14:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

On March 3, 2021 9:07:53 AM EST, Daniel Morandini <danielmorandini@me.com> wrote:
>Hi hiro and kemal,
>> correct. last i checked there were no viable usb wifi chipsets worth
>> supporting (i.e. both modern enough, and with documentation,
>> preferably without binary blob firmware)
>I was suspecting it. I tried to find one with these requirements too
>without luck.
>
>I guess I have 2 options now:
>- buy a long ethernet wire and hole some walls, or
>- build wifi repeater with ethernet port.
>
>Any suggestion/alternative approach?
>
>dan
>

i used to use an external wifi bridge over ethernet, something like:

http://fqa.9front.org/fqa3.html#3.2.3.2.1

sl


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle
  2021-03-03 14:43       ` Stanley Lieber
@ 2021-03-03 14:55         ` hiro
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-03-03 14:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

yeah, personally i chose the ethernet wire, old openwrt accesspoints
can be used sometimes if you have one lying around and don't want to
get another repeater/"bridge"

keep in mind wifi cannot really bridge more than one IP (sadly the
wifi src/destination fields cannot be mapped to ethernet mac addresses
properly).

On 3/3/21, Stanley Lieber <sl@stanleylieber.com> wrote:
> On March 3, 2021 9:07:53 AM EST, Daniel Morandini <danielmorandini@me.com>
> wrote:
>>Hi hiro and kemal,
>>> correct. last i checked there were no viable usb wifi chipsets worth
>>> supporting (i.e. both modern enough, and with documentation,
>>> preferably without binary blob firmware)
>>I was suspecting it. I tried to find one with these requirements too
>>without luck.
>>
>>I guess I have 2 options now:
>>- buy a long ethernet wire and hole some walls, or
>>- build wifi repeater with ethernet port.
>>
>>Any suggestion/alternative approach?
>>
>>dan
>>
>
> i used to use an external wifi bridge over ethernet, something like:
>
> http://fqa.9front.org/fqa3.html#3.2.3.2.1
>
> sl
>
>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle
  2021-03-03 11:10 [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle Daniel Morandini
  2021-03-03 11:42 ` kemal
@ 2021-03-03 16:05 ` fulton
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: fulton @ 2021-03-03 16:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

Quoth Daniel Morandini <danielmorandini@me.com>:
> Hi folks,
> does any of you know about a supported wifi dongle for a rpi4? I
> checked out "known working hw" and “networking" in fqa, but found
> no helpful information.
> 
> Thanks,
> have a nice day
> 
> dan

As of now there is no wifi dongle support in 9front. You can use an older Android phone's usb tethering (no cell service needed) with nusb/ether in rndis mode.

--
Fulton

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle
  2021-03-03 14:07     ` Daniel Morandini
  2021-03-03 14:43       ` Stanley Lieber
@ 2021-03-03 16:56       ` Julien Blanchard
  2021-03-03 17:19         ` hiro
  2021-03-03 17:21       ` Kurt H Maier
  2021-03-05 18:25       ` tony
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Julien Blanchard @ 2021-03-03 16:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

On 03/03/2021 15:07, Daniel Morandini wrote:
> 
> I guess I have 2 options now:
> - buy a long ethernet wire and hole some walls, or
> - build wifi repeater with ethernet port.
> 
> Any suggestion/alternative approach?
> 
> dan
> 

BPL + ethernet maybe? At least you don't have to drill a hole.

--
julienxx

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle
  2021-03-03 16:56       ` Julien Blanchard
@ 2021-03-03 17:19         ` hiro
  2021-03-04  8:57           ` Daniel Morandini
  2021-03-04 12:22           ` Noam Preil
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-03-03 17:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

drilling holes is not so bad
powerline is really bad

On 3/3/21, Julien Blanchard <julien@typed-hole.org> wrote:
> On 03/03/2021 15:07, Daniel Morandini wrote:
>>
>> I guess I have 2 options now:
>> - buy a long ethernet wire and hole some walls, or
>> - build wifi repeater with ethernet port.
>>
>> Any suggestion/alternative approach?
>>
>> dan
>>
>
> BPL + ethernet maybe? At least you don't have to drill a hole.
>
> --
> julienxx
>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle
  2021-03-03 14:07     ` Daniel Morandini
  2021-03-03 14:43       ` Stanley Lieber
  2021-03-03 16:56       ` Julien Blanchard
@ 2021-03-03 17:21       ` Kurt H Maier
  2021-03-05 18:25       ` tony
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Kurt H Maier @ 2021-03-03 17:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

On Wed, Mar 03, 2021 at 03:07:53PM +0100, Daniel Morandini wrote:
> Hi hiro and kemal,
> > correct. last i checked there were no viable usb wifi chipsets worth
> > supporting (i.e. both modern enough, and with documentation,
> > preferably without binary blob firmware)
> I was suspecting it. I tried to find one with these requirements too
> without luck.
> 
> I guess I have 2 options now:
> - buy a long ethernet wire and hole some walls, or
> - build wifi repeater with ethernet port.
> 
> Any suggestion/alternative approach?
> 
> dan

Richard Miller's plan 9 image supports wifi on these machines.

khm

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle
  2021-03-03 17:19         ` hiro
@ 2021-03-04  8:57           ` Daniel Morandini
  2021-03-04 10:09             ` hiro
  2021-03-04 12:22           ` Noam Preil
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Daniel Morandini @ 2021-03-04  8:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1428 bytes --]

> BPL + ethernet maybe? At least you don't have to drill a hole.
> powerline is really bad
BPL is Broadband Power Line right? This house is wired with very
old copper wires (not twisted), I bet I would not get much out of
it, but thanks for the suggestion.

> Richard Miller's plan 9 image supports wifi on these machines.
> As of now there is no wifi dongle support in 9front. You can use an older Android phone's usb tethering (no cell service needed) with nusb/ether in rndis mode.
> i used to use an external wifi bridge over ethernet
These are all valuable options, thank you, but hiro is making me think:

> keep in mind wifi cannot really bridge more than one IP (sadly the
wifi src/destination fields cannot be mapped to ethernet mac addresses
properly).
Could you please expand this a little bit more (possibly with
references)?  I’ve attached to this email a little handmade diagram
of my home setup.  The line tagged with “long eth cable” was the
one that I wanted to replace with a wireless connection to some
receiver device that eventually ethernets with the switch, but still
I would have had to check what 802.11 is allowing me to do. What
you tell makes me think that that protocol in this setup in that
position is not really a viable option right?

> drilling holes is not so bad
Indeed, this is what I’m going to go for :D

Thank you very much for your help so far,
dan


[-- Attachment #2: archive.tgz --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 92160 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle
  2021-03-04  8:57           ` Daniel Morandini
@ 2021-03-04 10:09             ` hiro
  2021-03-04 10:14               ` hiro
  2021-03-04 10:40               ` Daniel Morandini
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-03-04 10:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

I can tell you generally.

An ethernet client is a computer with a mac address.

Given you have a group of M clients and another group of N clients and
you want to connect them, plug the M clients into a switch with M+1
ports on one side and the N clients into a switch with N+1 ports on
the other side, then use the remaining port and a long cable to
connect them together.

Imagine now the M-AP is a wifi router, and you want to connect it to
the N-AP over wifi.
but here when wifi comes into play not every client is the same. you
have many wifi stations and just one wifi *ap*, if we make M-AP the
wifi AP, you can bridge all the M clients just fine. that works on AP
side.
But if you want to bridge a wifi *station* on the other side, you can
not. a station can only bridge N=1 mac addresses into a wifi.

So, with wifi, either M or N has to be 1. Useless, no?

We have some code in 9front called mat damon, which is like NAT, but
for MAC addresses instead of IP addresses. This way one mac address
can hide all the N other mac addresses and translate between them. But
that's obviously a layer violation, a stupid hack that only exists due
to the limitation of wifi.

On 3/4/21, Daniel Morandini <danielmorandini@me.com> wrote:
>> BPL + ethernet maybe? At least you don't have to drill a hole.
>> powerline is really bad
> BPL is Broadband Power Line right? This house is wired with very
> old copper wires (not twisted), I bet I would not get much out of
> it, but thanks for the suggestion.
>
>> Richard Miller's plan 9 image supports wifi on these machines.
>> As of now there is no wifi dongle support in 9front. You can use an older
>> Android phone's usb tethering (no cell service needed) with nusb/ether in
>> rndis mode.
>> i used to use an external wifi bridge over ethernet
> These are all valuable options, thank you, but hiro is making me think:
>
>> keep in mind wifi cannot really bridge more than one IP (sadly the
> wifi src/destination fields cannot be mapped to ethernet mac addresses
> properly).
> Could you please expand this a little bit more (possibly with
> references)?  I’ve attached to this email a little handmade diagram
> of my home setup.  The line tagged with “long eth cable” was the
> one that I wanted to replace with a wireless connection to some
> receiver device that eventually ethernets with the switch, but still
> I would have had to check what 802.11 is allowing me to do. What
> you tell makes me think that that protocol in this setup in that
> position is not really a viable option right?
>
>> drilling holes is not so bad
> Indeed, this is what I’m going to go for :D
>
> Thank you very much for your help so far,
> dan
>
>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle
  2021-03-04 10:09             ` hiro
@ 2021-03-04 10:14               ` hiro
  2021-03-04 10:40               ` Daniel Morandini
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-03-04 10:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

Because, you can have only one AP in a wifi network, this line needs
some fixing. sent too fast:
> Imagine now the M-AP is a wifi router, and you want to connect it to
the N-AP over wifi.

Imagine now the M-AP is a wifi router, and you want to connect it to
the N (not AP) over wifi.

On 3/4/21, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
> I can tell you generally.
>
> An ethernet client is a computer with a mac address.
>
> Given you have a group of M clients and another group of N clients and
> you want to connect them, plug the M clients into a switch with M+1
> ports on one side and the N clients into a switch with N+1 ports on
> the other side, then use the remaining port and a long cable to
> connect them together.
>
> Imagine now the M-AP is a wifi router, and you want to connect it to
> the N-AP over wifi.
> but here when wifi comes into play not every client is the same. you
> have many wifi stations and just one wifi *ap*, if we make M-AP the
> wifi AP, you can bridge all the M clients just fine. that works on AP
> side.
> But if you want to bridge a wifi *station* on the other side, you can
> not. a station can only bridge N=1 mac addresses into a wifi.
>
> So, with wifi, either M or N has to be 1. Useless, no?
>
> We have some code in 9front called mat damon, which is like NAT, but
> for MAC addresses instead of IP addresses. This way one mac address
> can hide all the N other mac addresses and translate between them. But
> that's obviously a layer violation, a stupid hack that only exists due
> to the limitation of wifi.
>
> On 3/4/21, Daniel Morandini <danielmorandini@me.com> wrote:
>>> BPL + ethernet maybe? At least you don't have to drill a hole.
>>> powerline is really bad
>> BPL is Broadband Power Line right? This house is wired with very
>> old copper wires (not twisted), I bet I would not get much out of
>> it, but thanks for the suggestion.
>>
>>> Richard Miller's plan 9 image supports wifi on these machines.
>>> As of now there is no wifi dongle support in 9front. You can use an
>>> older
>>> Android phone's usb tethering (no cell service needed) with nusb/ether
>>> in
>>> rndis mode.
>>> i used to use an external wifi bridge over ethernet
>> These are all valuable options, thank you, but hiro is making me think:
>>
>>> keep in mind wifi cannot really bridge more than one IP (sadly the
>> wifi src/destination fields cannot be mapped to ethernet mac addresses
>> properly).
>> Could you please expand this a little bit more (possibly with
>> references)?  I’ve attached to this email a little handmade diagram
>> of my home setup.  The line tagged with “long eth cable” was the
>> one that I wanted to replace with a wireless connection to some
>> receiver device that eventually ethernets with the switch, but still
>> I would have had to check what 802.11 is allowing me to do. What
>> you tell makes me think that that protocol in this setup in that
>> position is not really a viable option right?
>>
>>> drilling holes is not so bad
>> Indeed, this is what I’m going to go for :D
>>
>> Thank you very much for your help so far,
>> dan
>>
>>
>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle
  2021-03-04 10:09             ` hiro
  2021-03-04 10:14               ` hiro
@ 2021-03-04 10:40               ` Daniel Morandini
  2021-03-04 11:04                 ` hiro
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Daniel Morandini @ 2021-03-04 10:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

> An ethernet client is a computer with a mac address.
> 
> Given you have a group of M clients and another group of N clients and
> you want to connect them, plug the M clients into a switch with M+1
> ports on one side and the N clients into a switch with N+1 ports on
> the other side, then use the remaining port and a long cable to
> connect them together.
> 
> Imagine now the M-AP is a wifi router, and you want to connect it to
the N (not AP) over wifi.
> 
> but here when wifi comes into play not every client is the same. you
> have many wifi stations and just one wifi *ap*, if we make M-AP the
> wifi AP, you can bridge all the M clients just fine. that works on AP
> side.
You mean “that works on M side" right?

> But if you want to bridge a wifi *station* on the other side, you can
> not. a station can only bridge N=1 mac addresses into a wifi.
I’m getting there: practically I would have to make N-AP connect as a
client to M-AP to keep the only one ap limitation, but at that point
the new link would not be able to mux more than one ethernet client
becoming useless for my usecase, did I get it right?

> We have some code in 9front called mat damon, which is like NAT, but
> for MAC addresses instead of IP addresses. This way one mac address
> can hide all the N other mac addresses and translate between them. But
> that's obviously a layer violation, a stupid hack that only exists due
> to the limitation of wifi.
:D

dan

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle
  2021-03-04 10:40               ` Daniel Morandini
@ 2021-03-04 11:04                 ` hiro
  2021-03-04 11:21                   ` Daniel Morandini
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-03-04 11:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

yeah you got it right.

it's hard to find good terminology that still makes sense in all this.

on ethernet all nodes are the same, addressed by MAC addresses. on
wifi a station can only use one mac address, so bridges never work on
wifi stations but only on ap side, of which there can only be one.

On 3/4/21, Daniel Morandini <danielmorandini@me.com> wrote:
>> An ethernet client is a computer with a mac address.
>>
>> Given you have a group of M clients and another group of N clients and
>> you want to connect them, plug the M clients into a switch with M+1
>> ports on one side and the N clients into a switch with N+1 ports on
>> the other side, then use the remaining port and a long cable to
>> connect them together.
>>
>> Imagine now the M-AP is a wifi router, and you want to connect it to
> the N (not AP) over wifi.
>>
>> but here when wifi comes into play not every client is the same. you
>> have many wifi stations and just one wifi *ap*, if we make M-AP the
>> wifi AP, you can bridge all the M clients just fine. that works on AP
>> side.
> You mean “that works on M side" right?
>
>> But if you want to bridge a wifi *station* on the other side, you can
>> not. a station can only bridge N=1 mac addresses into a wifi.
> I’m getting there: practically I would have to make N-AP connect as a
> client to M-AP to keep the only one ap limitation, but at that point
> the new link would not be able to mux more than one ethernet client
> becoming useless for my usecase, did I get it right?
>
>> We have some code in 9front called mat damon, which is like NAT, but
>> for MAC addresses instead of IP addresses. This way one mac address
>> can hide all the N other mac addresses and translate between them. But
>> that's obviously a layer violation, a stupid hack that only exists due
>> to the limitation of wifi.
> :D
>
> dan

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle
  2021-03-04 11:04                 ` hiro
@ 2021-03-04 11:21                   ` Daniel Morandini
  2021-04-23  6:38                     ` unobe
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Daniel Morandini @ 2021-03-04 11:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

> yeah you got it right.
> 
> it's hard to find good terminology that still makes sense in all this.
> 
> on ethernet all nodes are the same, addressed by MAC addresses. on
> wifi a station can only use one mac address, so bridges never work on
> wifi stations but only on ap side, of which there can only be one.
Now I see. Thank you very, very much.

dan


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle
  2021-03-03 17:19         ` hiro
  2021-03-04  8:57           ` Daniel Morandini
@ 2021-03-04 12:22           ` Noam Preil
  2021-03-04 13:18             ` hiro
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Noam Preil @ 2021-03-04 12:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: hiro


Mar 4, 2021
> drilling holes is not so bad
> powerline is really bad
>
What's the issue with powerline? I've been considering getting it so I 
can move a noisy server...

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle
  2021-03-04 12:22           ` Noam Preil
@ 2021-03-04 13:18             ` hiro
  2021-03-04 13:43               ` Noam Preil
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-03-04 13:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

powerline has even worse latency than wifi, and depending on your
cabling the signal might be weak, like wifi.
the only thing it has going for itself is that you can still bridge
it, so they didn't fuck up the MAC layer like in wifi.

On 3/4/21, Noam Preil <noam@pixelhero.dev> wrote:
>
> Mar 4, 2021
>> drilling holes is not so bad
>> powerline is really bad
>>
> What's the issue with powerline? I've been considering getting it so I
> can move a noisy server...
>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle
  2021-03-04 13:18             ` hiro
@ 2021-03-04 13:43               ` Noam Preil
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Noam Preil @ 2021-03-04 13:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: hiro

Gotcha.

If the signal is good enough, I might be willing to deal with the latency 
if it means getting rid of the fan noise... Thanks for the info :)

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle
  2021-03-03 14:07     ` Daniel Morandini
                         ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2021-03-03 17:21       ` Kurt H Maier
@ 2021-03-05 18:25       ` tony
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: tony @ 2021-03-05 18:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

Im in a similar situation, where i really cant run wire to where i need 
it to be, and remain inside the house ( long story, of how the house is 
built makes it prohibitively hard )  so I picked up a Vonets AC1200. It 
will take your Ethernet device and connect to your WiFi. It does need a 
5v power ( comes with a usb cable ).

It also supports a true bridge mode, so you can attach it to a swtich 
and 'extend' your network out.

Its a bit pricey but has worked out well for me with having a couple of 
machines on the switch.

On 3/3/21 9:07 AM, Daniel Morandini wrote:
> Hi hiro and kemal,
>> correct. last i checked there were no viable usb wifi chipsets worth
>> supporting (i.e. both modern enough, and with documentation,
>> preferably without binary blob firmware)
> I was suspecting it. I tried to find one with these requirements too
> without luck.
>
> I guess I have 2 options now:
> - buy a long ethernet wire and hole some walls, or
> - build wifi repeater with ethernet port.
>
> Any suggestion/alternative approach?
>
> dan

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle
  2021-03-04 11:21                   ` Daniel Morandini
@ 2021-04-23  6:38                     ` unobe
  2021-04-23  8:26                       ` hiro
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: unobe @ 2021-04-23  6:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

Quoth Daniel Morandini <danielmorandini@me.com>:
> > yeah you got it right.
> > 
> > it's hard to find good terminology that still makes sense in all this.
> > 
> > on ethernet all nodes are the same, addressed by MAC addresses. on
> > wifi a station can only use one mac address, so bridges never work on
> > wifi stations but only on ap side, of which there can only be one.
> Now I see. Thank you very, very much.

My reply is dated, but maybe it'll be useful for someone.  On June 4
of last year, I had this in my 9front setup notes:

"""
Over the last couple of days I've been working to get bilbo
transitioned from a qemu instance on a macbook pro to a qemu instance
running on a kvm-capable computer.  I finally got it, but most of the
time was spent figuring out how to do bridging on a wireless card.
That was non-trivial.  The qemu documentation was like a scatterplot
and gave little insight into how to do it, and the resources it
directed one to were quite dated or didn't work for non-Linux guests.
Finally, I struck gold with this comment:
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/159191/setup-kvm-on-a-wireless-interface-on-a-laptop-machine

That worked flawlessly.  I also was able to update the kernel from
running 9pc to 9pc64.  Additionally, the kvm enabling is *well* worth
the time I spent working on networking and made me appreciate the
simplicity of plan9 even more.
"""

The idea described at stackexchange is to use a TAP device.  My
situation was using qemu, so not a native install, but thought I'd
mention how it worked if anyone was running a virtualized qemu on an
rpi4 (which is terribly slow--I've done it, but go with what you
got!).  In the setup described above, I just created a small wrapper
that did the required bits before starting qemu and after stopping it.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle
  2021-04-23  6:38                     ` unobe
@ 2021-04-23  8:26                       ` hiro
  2021-04-23 16:50                         ` unobe
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-04-23  8:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

yeah, sadly that doesn't go into depth at all.

proxy arp is not general enough to solve the real problem with wifi
(e.g. for ipv6 or dhcp).
the problem with wifi is that it cannot be bridged in the traditional
(as per ethernet spec) way.
and we already have mat damon as a solution on 9front. you have quoted
the summary of the explanation above already, if you check mat damon
there's more details if you're curious, or you just ask and you'll get
even more details about this horror.

tap devices are incidental side-effect of how qemu/kvm works on
unix/linux, has nothing to do with this problem.

On 4/23/21, unobe@cpan.org <unobe@cpan.org> wrote:
> Quoth Daniel Morandini <danielmorandini@me.com>:
>> > yeah you got it right.
>> >
>> > it's hard to find good terminology that still makes sense in all this.
>> >
>> > on ethernet all nodes are the same, addressed by MAC addresses. on
>> > wifi a station can only use one mac address, so bridges never work on
>> > wifi stations but only on ap side, of which there can only be one.
>> Now I see. Thank you very, very much.
>
> My reply is dated, but maybe it'll be useful for someone.  On June 4
> of last year, I had this in my 9front setup notes:
>
> """
> Over the last couple of days I've been working to get bilbo
> transitioned from a qemu instance on a macbook pro to a qemu instance
> running on a kvm-capable computer.  I finally got it, but most of the
> time was spent figuring out how to do bridging on a wireless card.
> That was non-trivial.  The qemu documentation was like a scatterplot
> and gave little insight into how to do it, and the resources it
> directed one to were quite dated or didn't work for non-Linux guests.
> Finally, I struck gold with this comment:
> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/159191/setup-kvm-on-a-wireless-interface-on-a-laptop-machine
>
> That worked flawlessly.  I also was able to update the kernel from
> running 9pc to 9pc64.  Additionally, the kvm enabling is *well* worth
> the time I spent working on networking and made me appreciate the
> simplicity of plan9 even more.
> """
>
> The idea described at stackexchange is to use a TAP device.  My
> situation was using qemu, so not a native install, but thought I'd
> mention how it worked if anyone was running a virtualized qemu on an
> rpi4 (which is terribly slow--I've done it, but go with what you
> got!).  In the setup described above, I just created a small wrapper
> that did the required bits before starting qemu and after stopping it.
>
>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle
  2021-04-23  8:26                       ` hiro
@ 2021-04-23 16:50                         ` unobe
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: unobe @ 2021-04-23 16:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

Quoth hiro <23hiro@gmail.com>:
> yeah, sadly that doesn't go into depth at all.
> 
> proxy arp is not general enough to solve the real problem with wifi
> (e.g. for ipv6 or dhcp).
> the problem with wifi is that it cannot be bridged in the traditional
> (as per ethernet spec) way.
> and we already have mat damon as a solution on 9front. you have quoted
> the summary of the explanation above already, if you check mat damon
> there's more details if you're curious, or you just ask and you'll get
> even more details about this horror.
> 
> tap devices are incidental side-effect of how qemu/kvm works on
> unix/linux, has nothing to do with this problem.

Thanks for giving me more details, hiro.

I probably missed the reference where to find mat damon outside of the
silver screen, so took a little digging to find it. In case anyone else
wants to see the code, it's @ /sys/src/9/port/wifi.c:/^dmatproxy .

cpu% lookman 'matt? damon'
cpu% cd /sys/man
cpu% walk -f | xargs grep -i 'matt? damon'
cpu% cd /sys/src
cpu% g 'matt? damon'
cpu% cd /n/extra
cpu% grep 'matt? damon' INDEX
cpu%

I googled and saw  @ http://ninetimes.cat-v.org/news/2018/02/02/0/:
 wifi: matt damon wifi bridging support

which then led me to look more closely at port/wifi.c .


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2021-04-23 17:01 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 23+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-03-03 11:10 [9front] rpi4 wifi USB dongle Daniel Morandini
2021-03-03 11:42 ` kemal
2021-03-03 12:17   ` hiro
2021-03-03 14:07     ` Daniel Morandini
2021-03-03 14:43       ` Stanley Lieber
2021-03-03 14:55         ` hiro
2021-03-03 16:56       ` Julien Blanchard
2021-03-03 17:19         ` hiro
2021-03-04  8:57           ` Daniel Morandini
2021-03-04 10:09             ` hiro
2021-03-04 10:14               ` hiro
2021-03-04 10:40               ` Daniel Morandini
2021-03-04 11:04                 ` hiro
2021-03-04 11:21                   ` Daniel Morandini
2021-04-23  6:38                     ` unobe
2021-04-23  8:26                       ` hiro
2021-04-23 16:50                         ` unobe
2021-03-04 12:22           ` Noam Preil
2021-03-04 13:18             ` hiro
2021-03-04 13:43               ` Noam Preil
2021-03-03 17:21       ` Kurt H Maier
2021-03-05 18:25       ` tony
2021-03-03 16:05 ` fulton

9front - general discussion about 9front

This inbox may be cloned and mirrored by anyone:

	git clone --mirror http://inbox.vuxu.org/9front

	# If you have public-inbox 1.1+ installed, you may
	# initialize and index your mirror using the following commands:
	public-inbox-init -V1 9front 9front/ http://inbox.vuxu.org/9front \
		9front@9front.org
	public-inbox-index 9front

Example config snippet for mirrors.
Newsgroup available over NNTP:
	nntp://inbox.vuxu.org/vuxu.archive.9front


AGPL code for this site: git clone https://public-inbox.org/public-inbox.git