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From: Bakul Shah <bakul@bitblocks.com>
To: Paul Winalski <paul.winalski@gmail.com>
Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org, Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] man-page style
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 14:25:56 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20181116222603.A8363156E40C@mail.bitblocks.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 16 Nov 2018 11:55:28 -0500." <CABH=_VTVJJPcDr8jKWCbL648ViLsLYXLmvu9HzW94sddHTs9WA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 11:55:28 -0500 Paul Winalski <paul.winalski@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/16/18, Grant Taylor via TUHS <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org> wrote:
> >
> > I think man pages make a great reference.  But I don't think they are a
> > good teaching source for someone that doesn't know the material or what
> > the components are for.
> >
> I agree with Grant.  If you want to know what a particular command
> does and what its options are, man pages are fantastic.  If you are a
> new or casual user trying to find out what command(s) to use to
> accomplish a particular task, the man pages are an exercise in
> frustration and futility.  

When I first came to Unix, I read man pages for every one of
the commands in /bin and experimented with them and tried out
various options. Being a fan of recursion the first thing I
tried was "man man"!  Then I went through all the man pages in
other section to learn about libc functions, special devices
and so on.  I knew about "apropos" (though don't recall if it
was in v7) but I didn't really use it all that much.  Or the
inverted index.

I tend to think software has more in common with carpentry
than science or engineering and like all good craftsman,
knowing how to use all the tools in your workshop is
essential. If you get lucky you get to be an apprentice to a
good mentor but I didn't have that luxury in a startup.

>                            Other OSes have done a better job in that
> area (the VMS and DTSS HELP commands come to mind).  IMO ideally one
> should have both--a generalized "help" command for those trying to
> find out what command to use, and "man" as reference material.  UNIX
> and Linux have never had a proper help facility.  Or at least I never
> was able to find it.

I had usd VMS befoe Unix. Not for long but I don't recall its
help facility being particularly superior.

Each of us learns differently so there is no one true style.

  parent reply	other threads:[~2018-11-16 22:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 141+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-11-16  0:03 Doug McIlroy
2018-11-16  4:50 ` Larry McVoy
2018-11-16  5:32   ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-16  6:03     ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-11-16 15:33       ` Jim Capp
2018-11-16 15:37         ` WIlliam Cheswick
2018-11-16 15:48           ` Clem Cole
2018-11-16 18:47           ` Tom Manos
2018-11-17  3:29         ` Andy Kosela
2018-11-16 16:55       ` Paul Winalski
2018-11-16 17:13         ` Larry McVoy
2018-11-16 17:31           ` Paul Winalski
2018-11-16 20:45             ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-16 17:33           ` Jim Capp
2018-11-16 17:36             ` Larry McVoy
2018-11-16 20:50             ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-16 17:39           ` Jon Steinhart
2018-11-16 18:57             ` Clem Cole
2018-11-16 17:29         ` Toby Thain
2018-11-16 20:52           ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-16 20:55             ` Larry McVoy
2018-11-16 20:56             ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-16 21:05               ` Jim Capp
2018-11-16 21:09                 ` Kurt H Maier
2018-11-19  2:53                 ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-19  5:59                   ` Lars Brinkhoff
2018-11-19 14:00                     ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-16 21:13               ` Jon Steinhart
2018-11-16 22:24                 ` Clem Cole
2018-11-17  7:50                 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2018-11-19  2:58                 ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-19  3:11                   ` Jon Steinhart
2018-11-19  3:21                     ` George Michaelson
2018-11-19  3:32                       ` Larry McVoy
2018-11-19  6:13                     ` Lars Brinkhoff
2018-11-19 14:06                       ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-19 15:35                     ` Clem Cole
2018-11-19 15:41                       ` David
2018-11-19 17:06                         ` Jon Steinhart
2018-11-19 17:39                       ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-11-19 18:40                         ` Clem Cole
2018-11-19 22:08                           ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-11-20  6:52                           ` arnold
2018-11-20  7:10                             ` Otto Moerbeek
2018-11-28  0:09                       ` Eric Allman
2018-11-28  0:36                         ` G. Branden Robinson
2018-11-28  0:57                           ` Eric Allman
2018-11-28  1:26                             ` G. Branden Robinson
2018-11-29  7:25                         ` arnold
2018-11-29 18:20                           ` Eric Allman
2018-11-29 18:52                             ` Larry McVoy
2018-12-03  6:52                             ` arnold
2018-11-19 13:08                   ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2018-11-19 13:20                     ` Donald ODona
2018-11-19  7:05                 ` Warner Losh
2018-11-19  7:20                   ` Bakul Shah
2018-11-19 16:48                   ` Jon Steinhart
2018-11-28  0:10                     ` Eric Allman
2018-11-29 18:48                       ` Larry McVoy
2018-11-29 19:13                         ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-11-29 19:28                           ` Larry McVoy
2018-11-29 19:32                           ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-29 19:36                             ` Warner Losh
2018-11-29 19:40                               ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-30 14:55                         ` WIlliam Cheswick
2018-11-30 15:05                           ` [TUHS] Upas rewrite little language William Cheswick
2018-11-30 22:58                           ` [TUHS] man-page style Dave Horsfall
2018-12-01 23:24                             ` WIlliam Cheswick
2018-12-01 19:53                           ` arnold
2018-12-01 21:26                             ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-12-02  7:22                               ` [TUHS] Ease (was Re: man-page style) arnold
2018-12-02  7:32                                 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-12-02 17:22                                   ` arnold
2018-11-17 14:49               ` [TUHS] man-page style Michael Parson
2018-11-17 21:07                 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-16 20:59             ` Jim Capp
2018-11-16 21:24               ` Toby Thain
2018-11-16 21:29                 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-11-16 21:35                   ` Toby Thain
2018-11-19  2:59                   ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-16 21:28               ` Lars Brinkhoff
2018-11-16 21:37               ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-17 23:38               ` Ralph Corderoy
2018-11-18  0:31                 ` Donald ODona
2018-11-18  3:00                   ` Toby Thain
2018-11-19  3:09                     ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-18  5:01                   ` Lars Brinkhoff
2018-11-18  5:29                     ` Lars Brinkhoff
2018-11-18  0:40                 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-11-16 21:12             ` emanuel stiebler
2018-11-16 18:00         ` Warner Losh
2018-11-16 18:16         ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-11-16 19:35           ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-16 20:50             ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-11-16 22:25         ` Bakul Shah [this message]
2018-11-17  0:25           ` Earl Baugh
2018-11-16 21:26       ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-17 18:16       ` arnold
2018-11-17 18:14   ` arnold
2018-11-17 18:21     ` Kurt H Maier
2018-11-17 19:42       ` arnold
2018-11-17 20:02       ` Noel Hunt
2018-11-17 20:36       ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-11-19  3:05       ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-16  5:24 ` Anthony Martin
2018-11-16  1:43 Doug McIlroy
2018-11-16  3:18 ` Rob Pike
2018-11-16  3:38   ` Ken Thompson via TUHS
2018-11-16  3:50     ` Bakul Shah
2018-11-16 13:29       ` Mike Markowski
2018-11-16 13:44         ` Bakul Shah
2018-11-16 14:02         ` Harald Arnesen
2018-11-16  6:38   ` Larry McVoy
2018-11-16 13:42     ` Clem Cole
2018-11-16 19:05 ` Nemo
2018-11-16 19:29 Noel Chiappa
2018-11-16 20:46 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-11-17 15:39 Noel Chiappa
2018-11-19  3:02 ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-19  4:15   ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-19 22:18     ` Michael Parson
2018-11-20  0:55       ` George Michaelson
2018-11-19  4:43   ` Kurt H Maier
2018-12-01 20:52 Norman Wilson
2018-12-01 21:34 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-12-01 23:09 Norman Wilson
2018-12-02  2:37 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-12-02  2:44   ` Larry McVoy
2018-12-02  2:59     ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-12-02 22:30 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-12-03  1:05   ` Warner Losh
2018-12-04  7:48     ` Dave Horsfall
2018-12-03  1:14   ` Bakul Shah
2018-12-03  1:30     ` Larry McVoy
2018-12-04 21:26       ` Dave Horsfall
2018-12-04 21:34         ` Larry McVoy
2018-12-04 22:11           ` Bakul Shah
2018-12-05  6:50           ` Pierre DAVID
2018-12-28  6:32           ` Dave Horsfall
2018-12-03  6:53   ` arnold
2018-12-02  3:24 Norman Wilson

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