The Unix Heritage Society mailing list
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Jon Steinhart <jon@fourwinds.com>
To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] man-page style
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2018 19:11:13 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <201811190311.wAJ3BDHR028154@darkstar.fourwinds.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <e8810295-5146-e126-a4d8-65e814f4b431@case.edu>

Chet Ramey writes:
> On 11/16/18 4:13 PM, Jon Steinhart wrote:
> > But really the issue is that info introduced a new interface on a system
> > that already had one that people were accustomed to.
>
> Improvement is in the eye of the beholder. RMS and other folks consider
> info, with its hyperlinks, indexes, and tree-based navigation the superior
> alternative.  Not just different, but better.

Well, of course it is.  And as long as one doesn't care much about existing
community one can do what one wants.  Sort of like Americans expecting others
to speak to them in English when they travel instead of understanding that
they're in a different environment and it makes more sense to learn the culture
as it's unlikely that everybody is gonna change just for you.  This is not a
unique problem with man vs info.  I see it in the large number of different
make utilities, package managers, and so on that really don't provide new
functionality but do make it much harder to be a practicioner since one has a
lot more stuff to learn for no real benefit.

So were it me, I would have looked at the current culture in the UNIX environment
and figured out how it gracefully extend it for new functionality.  To me, that's
a mark of good engineering instead of being a bull in a china shop.  A good example
of that in a different field is the way in which FM stereo was finessed in such a
way as to not break existing mono receivers.  Would have been easy to just toss it
and make everybody buy new gear, but I prefer the more elegant solution.

Jon

  reply	other threads:[~2018-11-19  3:11 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 141+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-11-16  0:03 Doug McIlroy
2018-11-16  4:50 ` Larry McVoy
2018-11-16  5:32   ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-16  6:03     ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-11-16 15:33       ` Jim Capp
2018-11-16 15:37         ` WIlliam Cheswick
2018-11-16 15:48           ` Clem Cole
2018-11-16 18:47           ` Tom Manos
2018-11-17  3:29         ` Andy Kosela
2018-11-16 16:55       ` Paul Winalski
2018-11-16 17:13         ` Larry McVoy
2018-11-16 17:31           ` Paul Winalski
2018-11-16 20:45             ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-16 17:33           ` Jim Capp
2018-11-16 17:36             ` Larry McVoy
2018-11-16 20:50             ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-16 17:39           ` Jon Steinhart
2018-11-16 18:57             ` Clem Cole
2018-11-16 17:29         ` Toby Thain
2018-11-16 20:52           ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-16 20:55             ` Larry McVoy
2018-11-16 20:56             ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-16 21:05               ` Jim Capp
2018-11-16 21:09                 ` Kurt H Maier
2018-11-19  2:53                 ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-19  5:59                   ` Lars Brinkhoff
2018-11-19 14:00                     ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-16 21:13               ` Jon Steinhart
2018-11-16 22:24                 ` Clem Cole
2018-11-17  7:50                 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2018-11-19  2:58                 ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-19  3:11                   ` Jon Steinhart [this message]
2018-11-19  3:21                     ` George Michaelson
2018-11-19  3:32                       ` Larry McVoy
2018-11-19  6:13                     ` Lars Brinkhoff
2018-11-19 14:06                       ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-19 15:35                     ` Clem Cole
2018-11-19 15:41                       ` David
2018-11-19 17:06                         ` Jon Steinhart
2018-11-19 17:39                       ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-11-19 18:40                         ` Clem Cole
2018-11-19 22:08                           ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-11-20  6:52                           ` arnold
2018-11-20  7:10                             ` Otto Moerbeek
2018-11-28  0:09                       ` Eric Allman
2018-11-28  0:36                         ` G. Branden Robinson
2018-11-28  0:57                           ` Eric Allman
2018-11-28  1:26                             ` G. Branden Robinson
2018-11-29  7:25                         ` arnold
2018-11-29 18:20                           ` Eric Allman
2018-11-29 18:52                             ` Larry McVoy
2018-12-03  6:52                             ` arnold
2018-11-19 13:08                   ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2018-11-19 13:20                     ` Donald ODona
2018-11-19  7:05                 ` Warner Losh
2018-11-19  7:20                   ` Bakul Shah
2018-11-19 16:48                   ` Jon Steinhart
2018-11-28  0:10                     ` Eric Allman
2018-11-29 18:48                       ` Larry McVoy
2018-11-29 19:13                         ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-11-29 19:28                           ` Larry McVoy
2018-11-29 19:32                           ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-29 19:36                             ` Warner Losh
2018-11-29 19:40                               ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-30 14:55                         ` WIlliam Cheswick
2018-11-30 15:05                           ` [TUHS] Upas rewrite little language William Cheswick
2018-11-30 22:58                           ` [TUHS] man-page style Dave Horsfall
2018-12-01 23:24                             ` WIlliam Cheswick
2018-12-01 19:53                           ` arnold
2018-12-01 21:26                             ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-12-02  7:22                               ` [TUHS] Ease (was Re: man-page style) arnold
2018-12-02  7:32                                 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-12-02 17:22                                   ` arnold
2018-11-17 14:49               ` [TUHS] man-page style Michael Parson
2018-11-17 21:07                 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-16 20:59             ` Jim Capp
2018-11-16 21:24               ` Toby Thain
2018-11-16 21:29                 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-11-16 21:35                   ` Toby Thain
2018-11-19  2:59                   ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-16 21:28               ` Lars Brinkhoff
2018-11-16 21:37               ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-17 23:38               ` Ralph Corderoy
2018-11-18  0:31                 ` Donald ODona
2018-11-18  3:00                   ` Toby Thain
2018-11-19  3:09                     ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-18  5:01                   ` Lars Brinkhoff
2018-11-18  5:29                     ` Lars Brinkhoff
2018-11-18  0:40                 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-11-16 21:12             ` emanuel stiebler
2018-11-16 18:00         ` Warner Losh
2018-11-16 18:16         ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-11-16 19:35           ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-16 20:50             ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-11-16 22:25         ` Bakul Shah
2018-11-17  0:25           ` Earl Baugh
2018-11-16 21:26       ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-17 18:16       ` arnold
2018-11-17 18:14   ` arnold
2018-11-17 18:21     ` Kurt H Maier
2018-11-17 19:42       ` arnold
2018-11-17 20:02       ` Noel Hunt
2018-11-17 20:36       ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-11-19  3:05       ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-16  5:24 ` Anthony Martin
2018-11-16  1:43 Doug McIlroy
2018-11-16  3:18 ` Rob Pike
2018-11-16  3:38   ` Ken Thompson via TUHS
2018-11-16  3:50     ` Bakul Shah
2018-11-16 13:29       ` Mike Markowski
2018-11-16 13:44         ` Bakul Shah
2018-11-16 14:02         ` Harald Arnesen
2018-11-16  6:38   ` Larry McVoy
2018-11-16 13:42     ` Clem Cole
2018-11-16 19:05 ` Nemo
2018-11-16 19:29 Noel Chiappa
2018-11-16 20:46 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-11-17 15:39 Noel Chiappa
2018-11-19  3:02 ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-19  4:15   ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-19 22:18     ` Michael Parson
2018-11-20  0:55       ` George Michaelson
2018-11-19  4:43   ` Kurt H Maier
2018-12-01 20:52 Norman Wilson
2018-12-01 21:34 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-12-01 23:09 Norman Wilson
2018-12-02  2:37 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-12-02  2:44   ` Larry McVoy
2018-12-02  2:59     ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-12-02 22:30 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-12-03  1:05   ` Warner Losh
2018-12-04  7:48     ` Dave Horsfall
2018-12-03  1:14   ` Bakul Shah
2018-12-03  1:30     ` Larry McVoy
2018-12-04 21:26       ` Dave Horsfall
2018-12-04 21:34         ` Larry McVoy
2018-12-04 22:11           ` Bakul Shah
2018-12-05  6:50           ` Pierre DAVID
2018-12-28  6:32           ` Dave Horsfall
2018-12-03  6:53   ` arnold
2018-12-02  3:24 Norman Wilson

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=201811190311.wAJ3BDHR028154@darkstar.fourwinds.com \
    --to=jon@fourwinds.com \
    --cc=tuhs@tuhs.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).