From: Grant Taylor via TUHS <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] man-page style
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2018 14:34:43 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <2addfda0-76bf-a649-b2a3-ec6ad1c78418@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1543697561.28059.for-standards-violators@oclsc.org>
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On 12/1/18 1:52 PM, Norman Wilson wrote:
> Bill's half right. I didn't invent a language; I used what was there.
Can I ask what language you did use? Was it m4 or something else?
> I decided that the best way to deal with Sendmail's own configuration
> language was to treat it as I would the assembly language for a
> specialized, irregularly-designed microprocessor:
>
> 1. Understand as well as possible what the instructions actually do;
> 2. Write the simplest possible program that will get the job done;
> 3. Avoid extra layers of macros and so on that hide the details, because
> that also hides the irregularities and makes it harder to understand
> and debug;
> 4. By the same reason, don't just copy someone else's program that does
> something complicated; write your own and do things simply.
>
> Sendmail has plenty of design flaws (not just in the language), as
> I'm sure Eric will acknowledge; but I think the biggest problem people
> have had with it that most people copied the rather-complicated sample
> configuration files shipped with the source rather than just reading
> the manual, doing a few experiments to understand the behaviour, and
> writing something simple.
I see the same lack of understanding in a lot of things.
> On the other hand, I've never quite understood why so many people
> treat device drivers as scary and untouchable, copying an existing one
> and hacking it until it seems to work rather than understanding what
> the device actually does and writing a simple program to control it.
> So perhaps my brain just doesn't work normally.
For me, I don't know where to get good documentation of what the device
actually does and how to make it do it. I also don't have a good (read:
any) understanding of the OS / kernels that I'd connect the device to.
So, writing software to connect the device (I don't fully comprehend) to
the OS / kernel (that I don't fully comprehend) in a language (that I'm
not fluent in) is an uphill battle for me. I have great respect and
gratitude for the people that do write device drivers.
I don't create the Lego bricks. But I do try to build interesting and
useful things out of the Lego bricks that others have built.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-12-01 21:35 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 137+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-12-01 20:52 Norman Wilson
2018-12-01 21:34 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS [this message]
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2018-12-02 3:24 Norman Wilson
2018-12-01 23:09 Norman Wilson
2018-12-02 2:37 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-12-02 2:44 ` Larry McVoy
2018-12-02 2:59 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-12-02 22:30 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-12-03 1:05 ` Warner Losh
2018-12-04 7:48 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-12-03 1:14 ` Bakul Shah
2018-12-03 1:30 ` Larry McVoy
2018-12-04 21:26 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-12-04 21:34 ` Larry McVoy
2018-12-04 22:11 ` Bakul Shah
2018-12-05 6:50 ` Pierre DAVID
2018-12-28 6:32 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-12-03 6:53 ` arnold
2018-11-17 15:39 Noel Chiappa
2018-11-19 3:02 ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-19 4:15 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-19 22:18 ` Michael Parson
2018-11-20 0:55 ` George Michaelson
2018-11-19 4:43 ` Kurt H Maier
2018-11-16 19:29 Noel Chiappa
2018-11-16 20:46 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-11-16 1:43 Doug McIlroy
2018-11-16 3:18 ` Rob Pike
2018-11-16 3:38 ` Ken Thompson via TUHS
2018-11-16 3:50 ` Bakul Shah
2018-11-16 13:29 ` Mike Markowski
2018-11-16 13:44 ` Bakul Shah
2018-11-16 14:02 ` Harald Arnesen
2018-11-16 6:38 ` Larry McVoy
2018-11-16 13:42 ` Clem Cole
2018-11-16 19:05 ` Nemo
2018-11-16 0:03 Doug McIlroy
2018-11-16 4:50 ` Larry McVoy
2018-11-16 5:32 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-16 6:03 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-11-16 15:33 ` Jim Capp
2018-11-16 15:37 ` WIlliam Cheswick
2018-11-16 15:48 ` Clem Cole
2018-11-16 18:47 ` Tom Manos
2018-11-17 3:29 ` Andy Kosela
2018-11-16 16:55 ` Paul Winalski
2018-11-16 17:13 ` Larry McVoy
2018-11-16 17:31 ` Paul Winalski
2018-11-16 20:45 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-16 17:33 ` Jim Capp
2018-11-16 17:36 ` Larry McVoy
2018-11-16 20:50 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-16 17:39 ` Jon Steinhart
2018-11-16 18:57 ` Clem Cole
2018-11-16 17:29 ` Toby Thain
2018-11-16 20:52 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-16 20:55 ` Larry McVoy
2018-11-16 20:56 ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-16 21:05 ` Jim Capp
2018-11-16 21:09 ` Kurt H Maier
2018-11-19 2:53 ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-19 5:59 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2018-11-19 14:00 ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-16 21:13 ` Jon Steinhart
2018-11-16 22:24 ` Clem Cole
2018-11-17 7:50 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2018-11-19 2:58 ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-19 3:11 ` Jon Steinhart
2018-11-19 3:21 ` George Michaelson
2018-11-19 3:32 ` Larry McVoy
2018-11-19 6:13 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2018-11-19 14:06 ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-19 15:35 ` Clem Cole
2018-11-19 15:41 ` David
2018-11-19 17:06 ` Jon Steinhart
2018-11-19 17:39 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-11-19 18:40 ` Clem Cole
2018-11-19 22:08 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-11-20 6:52 ` arnold
2018-11-20 7:10 ` Otto Moerbeek
2018-11-28 0:09 ` Eric Allman
2018-11-28 0:36 ` G. Branden Robinson
2018-11-28 0:57 ` Eric Allman
2018-11-28 1:26 ` G. Branden Robinson
2018-11-29 7:25 ` arnold
2018-11-29 18:20 ` Eric Allman
2018-11-29 18:52 ` Larry McVoy
2018-12-03 6:52 ` arnold
2018-11-19 13:08 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2018-11-19 13:20 ` Donald ODona
2018-11-19 7:05 ` Warner Losh
2018-11-19 7:20 ` Bakul Shah
2018-11-19 16:48 ` Jon Steinhart
2018-11-28 0:10 ` Eric Allman
2018-11-29 18:48 ` Larry McVoy
2018-11-29 19:13 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-11-29 19:28 ` Larry McVoy
2018-11-29 19:32 ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-29 19:36 ` Warner Losh
2018-11-29 19:40 ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-30 14:55 ` WIlliam Cheswick
2018-11-30 22:58 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-12-01 23:24 ` WIlliam Cheswick
2018-12-01 19:53 ` arnold
2018-12-01 21:26 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-11-17 14:49 ` Michael Parson
2018-11-17 21:07 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-16 20:59 ` Jim Capp
2018-11-16 21:24 ` Toby Thain
2018-11-16 21:29 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-11-16 21:35 ` Toby Thain
2018-11-19 2:59 ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-16 21:28 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2018-11-16 21:37 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-17 23:38 ` Ralph Corderoy
2018-11-18 0:31 ` Donald ODona
2018-11-18 3:00 ` Toby Thain
2018-11-19 3:09 ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-18 5:01 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2018-11-18 5:29 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2018-11-18 0:40 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-11-16 21:12 ` emanuel stiebler
2018-11-16 18:00 ` Warner Losh
2018-11-16 18:16 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-11-16 19:35 ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-16 20:50 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-11-16 22:25 ` Bakul Shah
2018-11-17 0:25 ` Earl Baugh
2018-11-16 21:26 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-11-17 18:16 ` arnold
2018-11-17 18:14 ` arnold
2018-11-17 18:21 ` Kurt H Maier
2018-11-17 19:42 ` arnold
2018-11-17 20:02 ` Noel Hunt
2018-11-17 20:36 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-11-19 3:05 ` Chet Ramey
2018-11-16 5:24 ` Anthony Martin
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