From: Andy Kosela <akosela@andykosela.com>
To: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
Cc: TUHS main list <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] SunOS code?
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 11:39:42 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CALMnNGi7vf3MnDPpp8XpzZ=5zYZBo2XcXTczX=irQ4GUrbK5pQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CANCZdfqsd4YnLZDZD5JBuayJ-dcNJSt3yWmiAjCRgVp5o0tB5w@mail.gmail.com>
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On Saturday, September 1, 2018, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 7:50 AM Andy Kosela <akosela@andykosela.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, September 1, 2018, Steve Mynott <steve.mynott@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 at 15:53, Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The BSDs have a less than optimal VM system. Having SunOS opened up
>>>> would at least let people see what they are missing. Maybe I have
>>>> rose colored glasses on but it was the only kernel that came into
>>>> focus for me and you could see the architecture from the code.
>>>> Everything else seems like a mess to me.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That may have been true in the late 80s and even early 90s but I'd have
>>> thought FreeBSD, NetBSD and OpenBSD would have useable VMs by now.
>>>
>>> I've vague recollections that these all originally used the VM from Mach
>>> which did have problems at first.
>>>
>>
> Yes. CSRG used Mach VM because it was available, not because it was
> awesome. The folks at CSRG approached Sun to have them donate their VM to
> BSD, and there were serious talks about doing this until the lawyers got
> involved and explained that would require a serious write down on their
> quarterly report so that nixed the whole thing.
>
>
>> I recall a more knowledgeable friend complaining about FreeBSD VM in 1994
>>> or so.
>>>
>>
> It used to be downright aweful.
>
>
>> I think the latter two use UVM and FreeBSD improved their Mach one (which
>>> has a SunOS kvmish API anyway). I've not seen complaints about modern BSD.
>>>
>>
> OpenBSD and NetBSD both moved to uvm.
>
>
>> Wasn't the whole FreeBSD VM rewritten by John Dyson and David Greenman in
>> the mid-late 90's? And then further improved by Matthew Dillon.
>>
>> Unfortunately they are not affiliated with the project anymore. All
>> three had exceptional coding skills.
>>
>
> With the exception of David, it's not unfortunate at all. Although they
> were good for the project's code, they weren't good for the project. They
> didn't work well with others and caused much more grief than the code they
> contributed. There comes a time when there's just too much drama and the
> rest of the code gets much much better when you aren't always fighting
> drama :(. It was a tough decision to make when I was on the core team to
> show Dillon the door. One not made lightly, nor without a lot of effort to
> work through the issues. In the end, though, we had to part ways. Dillon
> has done well with DragonFly, however.
>
Well, there are certainly as many sides to this story as there are people
involved. Same with NetBSD/OpenBSD split. Let's leave it as that as I
don't believe we have mentioned people on this list so they can't defend
themselves.
--Andy
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-09-04 9:40 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 132+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-08-24 15:13 [TUHS] Research UNIX on the AT&T 3B2? Seth Morabito
2018-08-24 15:23 ` William Cheswick
2018-08-24 16:06 ` Clem Cole
2018-08-24 16:46 ` Larry McVoy
2018-08-24 17:54 ` Jon Forrest
2018-08-26 2:22 ` Larry McVoy
2018-08-27 15:54 ` Mary Ann Horton
2018-08-27 17:06 ` Seth Morabito
2018-08-27 17:33 ` Clem Cole
2018-08-27 19:59 ` John P. Linderman
2018-08-27 20:27 ` Brad Spencer
2018-08-28 0:24 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-08-28 0:30 ` Larry McVoy
2018-08-28 6:01 ` arnold
2018-08-28 6:11 ` George Michaelson
2018-08-28 6:42 ` arnold
2018-08-28 13:13 ` Arthur Krewat
2018-08-28 22:39 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-08-29 5:25 ` arnold
2018-08-28 22:33 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-08-29 0:36 ` Harald Arnesen
2018-08-29 0:46 ` Larry McVoy
2018-08-29 5:29 ` [TUHS] SunOS code? arnold
2018-08-29 14:40 ` Larry McVoy
2018-08-29 14:41 ` Dan Cross
2018-08-29 14:44 ` William Pechter
2018-08-29 14:46 ` Warner Losh
2018-08-29 14:45 ` Clem Cole
2018-08-29 14:43 ` Warner Losh
2018-08-29 14:45 ` Warner Losh
2018-08-29 14:53 ` Larry McVoy
2018-09-01 11:43 ` Steve Mynott
2018-09-01 13:50 ` Andy Kosela
2018-09-01 14:32 ` Warner Losh
2018-09-04 9:39 ` Andy Kosela [this message]
2018-09-01 15:01 ` Larry McVoy
2018-09-01 15:20 ` Warner Losh
2018-09-01 18:24 ` Steve Mynott
2018-09-01 18:38 ` Larry McVoy
2018-08-29 23:09 ` David Arnold
2018-08-29 1:06 ` [TUHS] Research UNIX on the AT&T 3B2? Dave Horsfall
2018-08-29 3:23 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-08-29 4:36 ` [TUHS] Cryptic Unix Commands Warren Toomey
2018-08-29 16:13 ` Jeremy C. Reed
2018-08-29 22:03 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-08-29 22:09 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-08-29 22:21 ` William Pechter
2018-08-29 23:04 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-08-29 23:38 ` Larry McVoy
2018-08-30 3:59 ` William Pechter
2018-08-29 22:31 ` Dan Mick
2018-08-29 23:00 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-08-30 8:28 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-08-30 11:06 ` ron
2018-08-30 11:35 ` John P. Linderman
2018-08-30 13:24 ` Clem Cole
2018-08-30 14:31 ` William Pechter
2018-08-30 15:01 ` Clem Cole
2018-08-30 15:22 ` Warner Losh
2018-08-30 16:11 ` William Pechter
2018-08-29 5:06 ` [TUHS] Research UNIX on the AT&T 3B2? Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2018-08-29 14:25 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-08-29 14:41 ` Dan Cross
2018-08-29 14:50 ` Chet Ramey
2018-08-29 14:59 ` Larry McVoy
2018-08-29 15:08 ` Chet Ramey
2018-08-29 17:14 ` Arno Griffioen
2018-08-29 23:23 ` Eric Wayte
2018-08-30 3:03 ` Gregg Levine
2018-08-29 17:28 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-08-30 5:58 ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2018-08-30 13:14 ` Warner Losh
2018-08-29 8:43 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-08-29 7:03 ` Arrigo Triulzi
2018-08-28 1:14 ` Warren Toomey
2018-08-28 17:47 ` Paul Winalski
2018-08-26 8:48 ` arnold
2018-08-30 19:41 [TUHS] SunOS code? Noel Chiappa
2018-08-30 19:46 ` Larry McVoy
2018-08-30 20:04 ` Warner Losh
2018-08-30 20:22 ` Larry McVoy
2018-08-30 20:33 ` Clem Cole
2018-08-30 20:36 ` Larry McVoy
2018-08-30 20:40 ` Clem Cole
2018-08-30 20:43 ` Larry McVoy
2018-08-30 20:38 ` Warner Losh
2018-08-30 20:42 ` Larry McVoy
2018-08-30 20:43 ` Clem Cole
2018-08-30 20:37 ` Clem Cole
2018-08-31 5:49 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2018-08-31 9:50 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-08-31 11:01 ` Gregg Levine
2018-08-31 11:05 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2018-08-30 19:54 Noel Chiappa
2018-08-30 20:05 ` Earl Baugh
2018-08-30 21:34 Noel Chiappa
2018-08-31 1:59 ` Kevin Bowling
2018-08-31 21:34 ` Cág
2018-08-31 21:39 ` Clem Cole
2018-08-31 21:47 ` Arthur Krewat
2018-08-31 21:57 ` Warner Losh
2018-08-31 21:58 ` Larry McVoy
2018-08-31 22:02 ` Warner Losh
2018-08-31 22:19 ` Cág
2018-08-31 22:23 ` Jon Forrest
2018-08-31 22:30 ` Cág
2018-08-31 22:34 ` Jon Forrest
2018-09-01 10:46 ` Donald ODona
2018-08-31 22:20 ` Cág
2018-08-31 23:02 ` Arthur Krewat
2018-09-01 1:57 ` Larry McVoy
2018-09-01 3:23 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-09-01 16:29 ` Kevin Bowling
2018-09-01 16:35 ` Larry McVoy
2018-09-01 19:32 ` Clem Cole
2018-09-01 16:27 ` Kevin Bowling
2018-09-01 17:17 ` Arthur Krewat
2018-09-01 22:19 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-09-02 5:05 ` Kevin Bowling
2018-09-02 19:43 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-09-04 11:47 ` Kevin Bowling
2018-09-04 17:39 ` Gilles Gravier
2018-09-04 17:45 ` Henry Bent
2018-09-05 6:31 ` Gilles Gravier
2018-09-05 12:55 ` Arthur Krewat
2018-09-05 15:26 ` Warner Losh
2018-09-05 15:36 ` Chet Ramey
2018-09-05 15:43 ` Arthur Krewat
2018-09-05 23:40 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-09-05 0:10 ` Tony Finch
2018-09-04 17:58 Noel Chiappa
2018-09-06 0:39 ` Dave Horsfall
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