From: "Daniel Shahaf" <d.s@daniel.shahaf.name>
To: zsh-workers@zsh.org
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 3/3] FAQ: sync newuser-install
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2022 15:44:54 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <ce0fb3f9-f922-48ce-8067-fb587029a739@www.fastmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <c751aa82-e303-4358-b39c-bed85cea3e48@www.fastmail.com>
Lawrence Velázquez wrote on Sat, 27 Aug 2022 03:52 +00:00:
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2022, at 11:18 PM, Felipe Contreras wrote:
>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 7:31 PM Bart Schaefer <schaefer@brasslantern.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 5:23 PM Mikael Magnusson <mikachu@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Besides that, the whole thing is way too
>>> > disruptive just for you to save 2 lines in your .zshrc.
>>>
>>> Pretty much exactly that. The argument FOR doing something has to be
>>> persuasive, rebutting specific counterpoints is only part of that. I
>>> haven't seen anyone yet supporting your position without modification.
>>
>> I'm not sure what you mean. The argument in favor is right there: it
>> potentially reduces the number of options required in the
>> configuration.
>
> We know what your argument is. Some of us just are not persuaded
> by it.
>
>
>> But if you are an 18yo kid who just installed zsh, a configuration of
>> 3 lines vs. a configuration of 1 line makes a difference of 67%.
>> That's quite a lot.
>
> It's not a lot. It's still two lines. Using an impressive-looking
> percentage doesn't change this.
I think of it less as two more lines in the dotfile and more as five
more minutes figuring things out on first use ("What's this XDG thing
that page says I should set HISTFILE to?") and 15 more seconds typing
the values in every time one installs zsh without access to their dotfiles.
Put differently: Do people who enable history usually care what file it's saved in?
No? They why is that information a non-optional argument of the API?
Cheers,
Daniel
>> A better experience for new users is just better. The
>> `zsh-newuser-install` script is a step in the right direction, but in
>> my view it shouldn't be necessary. Running zsh with no configuration
>> should do a decent job for most people by default.
>>
>> The ideal minimal configuration that does a good enough job for most
>> people should be *zero* lines. Even if we never get there, any line
>> saved is a step in the right direction.
>
> If we were starting from a blank slate, I'm sure more of us would
> be on board. As it is, there are tradeoffs regarding compatibility
> and interactions with existing functionality. You seem to not care
> about that and want "a better experience for new users" at all cost,
> but we don't have to agree.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-08-27 15:45 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 93+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2022-08-24 4:31 [RFC PATCH 0/3] Improve defaults Felipe Contreras
2022-08-24 4:31 ` [RFC PATCH 1/3] Make SAVEHIST default to HISTSIZE Felipe Contreras
2022-08-24 4:31 ` [RFC PATCH 2/3] Increase default HISTSIZE to 1000 Felipe Contreras
2022-08-24 4:31 ` [RFC PATCH 3/3] FAQ: sync newuser-install Felipe Contreras
2022-08-24 9:06 ` Daniel Shahaf
2022-08-24 17:32 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-08-24 18:28 ` Eric Cook
2022-08-24 19:11 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-08-24 19:24 ` Matthew Martin
2022-08-24 19:25 ` Eric Cook
2022-08-24 19:40 ` Eric Cook
2022-08-24 20:03 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-08-24 20:11 ` Eric Cook
2022-08-24 20:27 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-08-24 20:53 ` Eric Cook
2022-08-25 8:04 ` Daniel Shahaf
2022-08-25 22:22 ` Bart Schaefer
2022-08-25 22:44 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-08-25 23:08 ` Bart Schaefer
2022-08-26 4:22 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-08-31 11:43 ` Vincent Lefevre
2022-08-26 5:20 ` Daniel Shahaf
2022-08-26 13:57 ` Mikael Magnusson
2022-08-26 14:04 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2022-08-26 23:43 ` Lawrence Velázquez
2022-08-27 15:17 ` Daniel Shahaf
2022-08-27 15:34 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2022-08-26 18:44 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-08-27 0:23 ` Mikael Magnusson
2022-08-27 0:31 ` Bart Schaefer
2022-08-27 3:18 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-08-27 3:52 ` Lawrence Velázquez
2022-08-27 15:44 ` Daniel Shahaf [this message]
2022-08-30 19:31 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-08-31 12:28 ` Vincent Lefevre
2022-08-31 19:36 ` Bart Schaefer
2022-09-01 0:23 ` Vincent Lefevre
2022-09-01 0:35 ` Bart Schaefer
2022-09-01 1:21 ` Vincent Lefevre
2022-09-01 2:42 ` [PATCH] initialization of main keymap Bart Schaefer
2022-09-01 21:58 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-09-01 22:34 ` Bart Schaefer
2022-09-01 22:54 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-09-02 8:51 ` Daniel Shahaf
2022-09-02 13:23 ` Vincent Lefevre
2022-09-02 13:42 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-09-04 9:39 ` Daniel Shahaf
2022-09-05 8:55 ` Vincent Lefevre
2022-09-02 13:32 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-09-02 16:48 ` Bart Schaefer
2022-09-04 9:35 ` Daniel Shahaf
2022-09-02 0:04 ` Vincent Lefevre
2022-09-02 5:06 ` Bart Schaefer
2022-09-02 13:15 ` Vincent Lefevre
2022-09-04 9:42 ` ${EDITOR} with spaces (was: Re: [PATCH] initialization of main keymap) Daniel Shahaf
2022-09-04 10:48 ` Mikael Magnusson
2022-09-05 9:15 ` Vincent Lefevre
2022-09-05 21:17 ` Lawrence Velázquez
2022-09-02 9:20 ` [RFC PATCH 3/3] FAQ: sync newuser-install Daniel Shahaf
2022-09-02 13:50 ` Vincent Lefevre
2022-08-31 21:57 ` Mikael Magnusson
2022-08-31 22:28 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2022-09-01 0:29 ` Bart Schaefer
2022-09-01 22:45 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-09-02 3:46 ` Mikael Magnusson
2022-09-02 5:57 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-09-02 23:14 ` Mikael Magnusson
2022-09-02 23:56 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-09-02 9:18 ` Daniel Shahaf
2022-09-02 12:50 ` Vincent Lefevre
2022-09-02 13:28 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-09-02 13:47 ` Vincent Lefevre
2022-09-02 13:54 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-09-03 13:38 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2022-09-03 19:07 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-09-03 19:27 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2022-09-03 20:08 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-09-03 20:23 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2022-09-03 20:49 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-09-03 23:12 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2022-09-03 18:59 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-09-04 0:08 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2022-09-03 19:24 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-08-27 0:35 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-08-27 2:24 ` Bart Schaefer
2022-08-27 15:40 ` Daniel Shahaf
2022-08-27 15:55 ` Bart Schaefer
2022-08-27 17:53 ` Daniel Shahaf
2022-08-24 20:58 ` [RFC PATCH 0/3] Improve defaults Bart Schaefer
2022-08-24 21:50 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-08-24 22:18 ` Bart Schaefer
2022-08-24 22:54 ` Felipe Contreras
2022-08-24 21:39 ` Mikael Magnusson
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