From: Skip Tavakkolian <skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, WAS: Re: RESOLVED: recoving important header file rudely
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 08:57:16 -0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=4vRSz7L5e7_ejMZPTEkMw_rWKp-FGrG4zcRLD@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20110218222141.B390D5B44@mail.bitblocks.com>
it seems to me that trying Op (Octopus) on Plan 9 would be a logical first step.
On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Bakul Shah <bakul+plan9@bitblocks.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Feb 2011 13:06:43 PST John Floren <john@jfloren.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 12:15 PM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wr=
>> ote:
>> >> > i don't think that it makes sense to say that since replica
>> >> > is slow and hg/rsync are fast, it follows that 9p is slow.
>> >>
>> >> It is the other way around. 9p can't handle latency so on
>> >> high latency pipes programs using 9p won't be as fast as
>> >> programs using streaming (instead of rpc). Granted that there
>> >> are many other factors when it comes to hg & replica but
>> >> latency is a major one.
>> >
>> > you're still comparing apples and girraffes. =A0rsync/hg have
>> > protocols ment for syncing. =A0replica uses 9p, which is not a
>> > protocol designed for syncing. =A0it's designed for regular file
>> > access. =A0it would be similarly difficult to use rsync's protocol
>> > directly for file access.
>>
>> So why does replica use 9P? Because it's *The Plan 9 Protocol*. If
>> *The Plan 9 Protocol* turns out to not serve our needs, we need to
>> figure out why.
>
> The point I was trying to make (but clearly not clearly) was
> that simplicity and performance are often at cross purposes
> and a simple solution is not always "good enough". RPC
> (which is what 9p is) is simpler and perfectly fine when
> latencies are small but not when there is a lot of latency in
> relation to the amount of work doable with each rpc call.
>
> Instead of reading/writing in small chunks, you want to
> minimize the number of request/response round trips by
> conveying information at a more abstract level (which is
> what rsync does).
>
>> 9P as specified in the documentation might not necessarily be the
>> problem, but the implementation apparently is.
>
> It is inherent to 9p (and RPC).
>
> The wikipedia page on plan9 says "Plan 9 was engineered for
> modern distributed environments, designed from the start to
> be a networked operating system." -- but it _is_ curious that
> a networked/distributed OS does not handle latency well. This
> may be a heretical thing to say but there it is :-)
>
> I think it is worth looking at a successor protocol instead
> of just minimally fixing up 9p (a clean slate approach frees
> up your mind. You can then merge the two later).
>
>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2011-02-19 16:57 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 192+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2011-01-29 22:47 [9fans] HELP: recoving important header file rudely clobbered by mk smiley
2011-01-29 22:54 ` erik quanstrom
2011-01-29 22:58 ` Steve Simon
2011-01-30 1:16 ` smiley
2011-01-30 4:07 ` John Floren
2011-01-30 4:49 ` erik quanstrom
2011-01-30 4:56 ` John Floren
2011-02-01 6:22 ` smiley
2011-02-01 6:47 ` Federico G. Benavento
2011-02-01 6:54 ` John Floren
2011-01-29 23:24 ` [9fans] RESOLVED: " smiley
2011-01-29 23:41 ` Steve Simon
2011-01-30 14:19 ` [9fans] RESOLVED: recoving important header file rudely Richard Miller
2011-01-30 14:28 ` erik quanstrom
2011-01-31 18:02 ` smiley
2011-01-31 22:12 ` Steve Simon
2011-02-01 6:02 ` smiley
2011-02-01 6:26 ` Lucio De Re
2011-02-01 7:07 ` smiley
2011-02-01 7:22 ` Lucio De Re
2011-02-01 13:45 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-01 16:24 ` Charles Forsyth
2011-02-01 6:45 ` ron minnich
2011-02-01 17:51 ` smiley
2011-02-01 18:33 ` ron minnich
2011-02-01 19:16 ` jimmy frasche
2011-02-02 0:28 ` smiley
2011-02-02 0:42 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-02 0:47 ` ron minnich
2011-02-02 5:14 ` [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, WAS: " smiley
2011-02-02 5:37 ` Scott Sullivan
2011-02-02 5:38 ` EBo
2011-02-02 15:54 ` Anthony Sorace
2011-02-02 12:54 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-02 13:48 ` Devon H. O'Dell
2011-02-02 17:47 ` David Leimbach
2011-02-02 17:53 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-02 18:07 ` tlaronde
2011-02-02 18:26 ` David Leimbach
2011-02-02 18:48 ` tlaronde
2011-02-02 19:26 ` Nick LaForge
2011-02-03 0:39 ` Charles Forsyth
2011-02-02 17:44 ` David Leimbach
2011-02-02 17:50 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-02 18:15 ` Jonathan Cast
2011-02-02 18:21 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-02 18:36 ` David Leimbach
2011-02-02 18:38 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-02 18:46 ` David Leimbach
2011-02-02 19:15 ` Jonathan Cast
2011-02-02 19:31 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-02 19:48 ` Jeff Sickel
2011-02-02 20:07 ` Jonathan Cast
2011-02-02 20:11 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-02 20:22 ` Jonathan Cast
2011-02-02 18:21 ` David Leimbach
2011-02-03 10:00 ` [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, Greg Comeau
2011-02-02 18:03 ` [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, WAS: Re: RESOLVED: recoving important header file rudely erik quanstrom
2011-02-02 18:30 ` David Leimbach
2011-02-18 5:23 ` ron minnich
2011-02-18 5:34 ` Paul Lalonde
2011-02-18 13:29 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-18 13:45 ` dexen deVries
2011-02-18 14:54 ` David Leimbach
2011-02-18 15:15 ` Devon H. O'Dell
2011-02-18 16:11 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-18 16:28 ` Devon H. O'Dell
2011-02-18 16:49 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-18 17:10 ` Devon H. O'Dell
2011-02-18 17:32 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-18 17:44 ` ron minnich
2011-02-18 19:28 ` Devon H. O'Dell
2011-02-18 19:33 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-18 19:49 ` Devon H. O'Dell
2011-02-18 18:43 ` Joseph Stewart
2011-02-18 17:05 ` andrey mirtchovski
2011-02-18 17:12 ` Devon H. O'Dell
2011-02-18 16:53 ` dexen deVries
2011-02-18 16:59 ` Devon H. O'Dell
2011-02-18 17:07 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-18 17:11 ` Devon H. O'Dell
2011-02-18 17:21 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-18 17:52 ` John Floren
2011-02-18 18:46 ` Rob Pike
2011-02-18 19:15 ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-18 19:26 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-18 19:46 ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-18 20:15 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-18 21:06 ` John Floren
2011-02-18 22:21 ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-18 23:39 ` [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, Lyndon Nerenberg (VE6BBM/VE7TFX)
2011-02-19 10:26 ` [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, WAS: Re: RESOLVED: recoving important header file rudely Steve Simon
2011-02-19 15:09 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-19 20:09 ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-19 21:15 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-20 23:49 ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-21 14:47 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-19 16:57 ` Skip Tavakkolian [this message]
2011-02-19 15:36 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-24 10:09 ` [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, Greg Comeau
2011-02-18 19:35 ` [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, WAS: Re: RESOLVED: recoving important header file rudely David Leimbach
2011-02-18 20:10 ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-18 21:03 ` ron minnich
2011-02-18 23:55 ` Federico G. Benavento
2011-02-24 10:09 ` [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, Greg Comeau
2011-02-18 19:15 ` [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, WAS: Re: RESOLVED: recoving important header file rudely Devon H. O'Dell
2011-02-21 5:08 ` smiley
2011-02-18 17:16 ` Russ Cox
2011-02-18 17:12 ` andrey mirtchovski
2011-02-19 10:34 ` Steve Simon
2011-02-19 17:25 ` dexen deVries
2011-02-02 4:19 ` [9fans] " Federico G. Benavento
2011-02-02 19:15 ` smiley
2011-02-02 21:47 ` ron minnich
2011-02-03 3:35 ` smiley
2011-02-03 4:32 ` andrey mirtchovski
2011-02-03 6:15 ` Lucio De Re
2011-02-03 7:54 ` dexen deVries
2011-02-03 9:48 ` Charles Forsyth
2011-02-03 13:01 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-03 13:40 ` roger peppe
2011-02-03 13:59 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-03 14:16 ` roger peppe
2011-02-03 14:17 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-03 14:24 ` roger peppe
2011-02-03 14:38 ` Charles Forsyth
2011-02-03 18:45 ` Skip Tavakkolian
2011-02-03 16:23 ` Noah Evans
2011-02-01 8:25 ` Federico G. Benavento
2011-02-01 8:37 ` Akshat Kumar
2011-02-01 9:02 ` Federico G. Benavento
2011-02-01 14:11 ` erik quanstrom
[not found] ` <AANLkTimYW2wofCNn1WB09cTVrQ69QxjPMZqY=Qrri5Xi@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <AANLkTikM+LcEzaHMjWoSGubNnzXx-5h_bprQcJsrGnnG@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <AANLkTim4mPBHv8R=2XwdWaBc_aPHyRjj_CbdkgC8KZbd@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <AANLkTi=9HkdLfNLFWxddDkHWC8w_uWKPEnWQ4r2gD7an@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <AANLkTikjYkyW75PLm8z65=1+gTLUZLxG-xcN9wkQVuPr@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <AANLkTimLMLsWWQtVPZwGb0qwFxjbpy05qVZHDv92LfYY@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <AANLkTimoXQLMpciQh_tLRfS5ht8ONFvqz2QXEC0td2G4@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <AANLkTimDXcriCuejuYZ2OixXVjoYckB-hcy9+FkMsjcS@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <AANLkTikmQuhyXh6qhgM4hgWK2N-EhebLkWtpf9OnUkx1@mail.gmail.com>
2011-02-01 17:20 ` Jacob Todd
2011-02-01 6:54 ` [9fans] HELP: recoving important header file rudely clobbered by mk ron minnich
2011-02-01 14:49 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-01 14:58 ` Eric Van Hensbergen
2011-02-01 15:18 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-01 15:37 ` Eric Van Hensbergen
2011-02-01 15:45 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-01 16:31 ` Eric Van Hensbergen
2011-02-01 16:45 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-01 16:59 ` ron minnich
2011-02-02 3:46 ` Federico G. Benavento
2011-02-01 16:41 ` ron minnich
2011-02-01 16:25 ` Charles Forsyth
2011-02-01 7:01 ` Federico G. Benavento
2011-02-02 19:05 ` smiley
2011-02-03 10:16 ` [9fans] HELP: recoving important header file rudely clobbered Richard Miller
2011-02-03 10:24 ` dexen deVries
2011-02-03 10:27 ` dexen deVries
2011-02-03 10:23 ` Richard Miller
2011-02-03 10:37 ` roger peppe
2011-02-03 10:48 ` Lucio De Re
2011-02-02 6:56 [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, WAS: Re: RESOLVED: recoving important header file rudely Jacob Todd
2011-02-02 7:06 ` ron minnich
2011-02-02 7:25 ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-02 7:25 ` Lucio De Re
2011-02-02 7:35 ` Nick LaForge
2011-02-02 17:45 ` David Leimbach
2011-02-02 19:19 ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-03 0:30 ` Charles Forsyth
2011-02-03 0:21 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-03 0:52 ` Charles Forsyth
2011-02-03 0:50 ` ron minnich
2011-02-03 2:16 ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-03 2:25 ` David Leimbach
2011-02-03 2:26 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-03 15:08 ` David Leimbach
2011-02-03 16:19 ` Eugene Gorodinsky
2011-02-03 17:41 ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-03 18:11 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-03 18:33 ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-03 18:54 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-03 19:40 ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-03 20:33 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-04 7:16 ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-04 14:38 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-03 18:29 ` Joseph Stewart
2011-02-03 8:35 ` Charles Forsyth
2011-02-03 8:56 ` EBo
2011-02-03 9:46 ` Charles Forsyth
2011-02-03 9:47 ` EBo
2011-02-03 9:50 ` Lucio De Re
2011-02-03 10:38 ` C H Forsyth
2011-02-03 12:07 ` EBo
2011-02-03 20:49 ` Federico G. Benavento
2011-02-03 21:07 ` ron minnich
2011-02-03 21:32 ` Steve Simon
2011-02-03 23:19 ` EBo
2011-02-03 18:21 ` smiley
2011-02-03 18:50 ` John Floren
2011-02-04 5:54 ` andrey mirtchovski
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