9fans - fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: "Devon H. O'Dell" <devon.odell@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, WAS: Re: RESOLVED: recoving important header file rudely
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 14:15:51 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <AANLkTikA2u9AVa8KZyhBYmL3ziKqBeh1Zs=eqRm0+5W9@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=FZzDOpxtabN6s1pL6MKp0SF8a2Ur4r9Q92sPG@mail.gmail.com>

2011/2/18 Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com>:
> The more you optimize, the better the odds you slow your program down.
>  Optimization adds instructions and often data, in one of the
> paradoxes of engineering.  In time, then, what you gain by
> "optimizing" increases cache pressure and slows the whole thing down.
>
> C++ inlines a lot because microbenchmarks improve, but inline every
> modest function in a big program and you make the binary much bigger
> and blow the i-cache.

I think what I've been trying to say in this thread doesn't clash with
anything that you, Erik, or others have said. Understanding the
system, the complexity you are introducing, and carefully measuring
the net effect are all important parts of the optimization process.
You can't just switch from one data structure to another. Skip lists
are a really great example: they have really amazing properties, but
you trash your cache when you use them, and gathering entropy to
determine where a node is placed is *not* cheap. In the end, an
optimization that slows things down is not an optimization at all. You
can't do it if you don't understand what you're doing, and you don't
understand the overall effect.

I don't think that Linux's gettimeofday(2) optimization falls into
this category, though I do think that some of the similar
optimizations they've done using the same approach do. In this
specific case, it is an easy optimization that is cheap and works
quite well. It provides measurable performance improvements in the
general case, as well as in special cases. As mentioned before, people
who need more accurate times can still use rdtsc.

> -rob

--dho



  parent reply	other threads:[~2011-02-18 19:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 192+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2011-01-29 22:47 [9fans] HELP: recoving important header file rudely clobbered by mk smiley
2011-01-29 22:54 ` erik quanstrom
2011-01-29 22:58 ` Steve Simon
2011-01-30  1:16   ` smiley
2011-01-30  4:07     ` John Floren
2011-01-30  4:49       ` erik quanstrom
2011-01-30  4:56         ` John Floren
2011-02-01  6:22       ` smiley
2011-02-01  6:47         ` Federico G. Benavento
2011-02-01  6:54           ` John Floren
2011-01-29 23:24 ` [9fans] RESOLVED: " smiley
2011-01-29 23:41   ` Steve Simon
2011-01-30 14:19     ` [9fans] RESOLVED: recoving important header file rudely Richard Miller
2011-01-30 14:28       ` erik quanstrom
2011-01-31 18:02       ` smiley
2011-01-31 22:12         ` Steve Simon
2011-02-01  6:02           ` smiley
2011-02-01  6:26             ` Lucio De Re
2011-02-01  7:07               ` smiley
2011-02-01  7:22                 ` Lucio De Re
2011-02-01 13:45                 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-01 16:24                 ` Charles Forsyth
2011-02-01  6:45             ` ron minnich
2011-02-01 17:51               ` smiley
2011-02-01 18:33                 ` ron minnich
2011-02-01 19:16                   ` jimmy frasche
2011-02-02  0:28                   ` smiley
2011-02-02  0:42                     ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-02  0:47                     ` ron minnich
2011-02-02  5:14                       ` [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, WAS: " smiley
2011-02-02  5:37                         ` Scott Sullivan
2011-02-02  5:38                         ` EBo
2011-02-02 15:54                           ` Anthony Sorace
2011-02-02 12:54                         ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-02 13:48                           ` Devon H. O'Dell
2011-02-02 17:47                           ` David Leimbach
2011-02-02 17:53                             ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-02 18:07                             ` tlaronde
2011-02-02 18:26                               ` David Leimbach
2011-02-02 18:48                                 ` tlaronde
2011-02-02 19:26                                   ` Nick LaForge
2011-02-03  0:39                                 ` Charles Forsyth
2011-02-02 17:44                         ` David Leimbach
2011-02-02 17:50                           ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-02 18:15                             ` Jonathan Cast
2011-02-02 18:21                               ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-02 18:36                                 ` David Leimbach
2011-02-02 18:38                                   ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-02 18:46                                     ` David Leimbach
2011-02-02 19:15                                 ` Jonathan Cast
2011-02-02 19:31                                   ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-02 19:48                                     ` Jeff Sickel
2011-02-02 20:07                                     ` Jonathan Cast
2011-02-02 20:11                                       ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-02 20:22                                         ` Jonathan Cast
2011-02-02 18:21                             ` David Leimbach
2011-02-03 10:00                             ` [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, Greg Comeau
2011-02-02 18:03                           ` [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, WAS: Re: RESOLVED: recoving important header file rudely erik quanstrom
2011-02-02 18:30                             ` David Leimbach
2011-02-18  5:23                         ` ron minnich
2011-02-18  5:34                           ` Paul Lalonde
2011-02-18 13:29                             ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-18 13:45                               ` dexen deVries
2011-02-18 14:54                                 ` David Leimbach
2011-02-18 15:15                                 ` Devon H. O'Dell
2011-02-18 16:11                                   ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-18 16:28                                     ` Devon H. O'Dell
2011-02-18 16:49                                       ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-18 17:10                                         ` Devon H. O'Dell
2011-02-18 17:32                                           ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-18 17:44                                             ` ron minnich
2011-02-18 19:28                                               ` Devon H. O'Dell
2011-02-18 19:33                                                 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-18 19:49                                                   ` Devon H. O'Dell
2011-02-18 18:43                                         ` Joseph Stewart
2011-02-18 17:05                                       ` andrey mirtchovski
2011-02-18 17:12                                         ` Devon H. O'Dell
2011-02-18 16:53                                   ` dexen deVries
2011-02-18 16:59                                     ` Devon H. O'Dell
2011-02-18 17:07                                       ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-18 17:11                                         ` Devon H. O'Dell
2011-02-18 17:21                                           ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-18 17:52                                             ` John Floren
2011-02-18 18:46                                               ` Rob Pike
2011-02-18 19:15                                                 ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-18 19:26                                                   ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-18 19:46                                                     ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-18 20:15                                                       ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-18 21:06                                                         ` John Floren
2011-02-18 22:21                                                           ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-18 23:39                                                             ` [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, Lyndon Nerenberg (VE6BBM/VE7TFX)
2011-02-19 10:26                                                             ` [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, WAS: Re: RESOLVED: recoving important header file rudely Steve Simon
2011-02-19 15:09                                                             ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-19 20:09                                                               ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-19 21:15                                                                 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-20 23:49                                                                   ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-21 14:47                                                                     ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-19 16:57                                                             ` Skip Tavakkolian
2011-02-19 15:36                                                           ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-24 10:09                                                       ` [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, Greg Comeau
2011-02-18 19:35                                                   ` [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, WAS: Re: RESOLVED: recoving important header file rudely David Leimbach
2011-02-18 20:10                                                     ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-18 21:03                                                       ` ron minnich
2011-02-18 23:55                                                     ` Federico G. Benavento
2011-02-24 10:09                                                       ` [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, Greg Comeau
2011-02-18 19:15                                                 ` Devon H. O'Dell [this message]
2011-02-21  5:08                                                   ` [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, WAS: Re: RESOLVED: recoving important header file rudely smiley
2011-02-18 17:16                                         ` Russ Cox
2011-02-18 17:12                                       ` andrey mirtchovski
2011-02-19 10:34                                   ` Steve Simon
2011-02-19 17:25                                     ` dexen deVries
2011-02-02  4:19                 ` [9fans] " Federico G. Benavento
2011-02-02 19:15                   ` smiley
2011-02-02 21:47                     ` ron minnich
2011-02-03  3:35                       ` smiley
2011-02-03  4:32                         ` andrey mirtchovski
2011-02-03  6:15                         ` Lucio De Re
2011-02-03  7:54                         ` dexen deVries
2011-02-03  9:48                           ` Charles Forsyth
2011-02-03 13:01                             ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-03 13:40                               ` roger peppe
2011-02-03 13:59                                 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-03 14:16                                   ` roger peppe
2011-02-03 14:17                                     ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-03 14:24                                       ` roger peppe
2011-02-03 14:38                                     ` Charles Forsyth
2011-02-03 18:45                         ` Skip Tavakkolian
2011-02-03 16:23                     ` Noah Evans
2011-02-01  8:25             ` Federico G. Benavento
2011-02-01  8:37             ` Akshat Kumar
2011-02-01  9:02               ` Federico G. Benavento
2011-02-01 14:11             ` erik quanstrom
     [not found]             ` <AANLkTimYW2wofCNn1WB09cTVrQ69QxjPMZqY=Qrri5Xi@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]               ` <AANLkTikM+LcEzaHMjWoSGubNnzXx-5h_bprQcJsrGnnG@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                 ` <AANLkTim4mPBHv8R=2XwdWaBc_aPHyRjj_CbdkgC8KZbd@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                   ` <AANLkTi=9HkdLfNLFWxddDkHWC8w_uWKPEnWQ4r2gD7an@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                     ` <AANLkTikjYkyW75PLm8z65=1+gTLUZLxG-xcN9wkQVuPr@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                       ` <AANLkTimLMLsWWQtVPZwGb0qwFxjbpy05qVZHDv92LfYY@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                         ` <AANLkTimoXQLMpciQh_tLRfS5ht8ONFvqz2QXEC0td2G4@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                           ` <AANLkTimDXcriCuejuYZ2OixXVjoYckB-hcy9+FkMsjcS@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                             ` <AANLkTikmQuhyXh6qhgM4hgWK2N-EhebLkWtpf9OnUkx1@mail.gmail.com>
2011-02-01 17:20                               ` Jacob Todd
2011-02-01  6:54 ` [9fans] HELP: recoving important header file rudely clobbered by mk ron minnich
2011-02-01 14:49   ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-01 14:58     ` Eric Van Hensbergen
2011-02-01 15:18       ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-01 15:37         ` Eric Van Hensbergen
2011-02-01 15:45           ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-01 16:31             ` Eric Van Hensbergen
2011-02-01 16:45               ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-01 16:59                 ` ron minnich
2011-02-02  3:46                   ` Federico G. Benavento
2011-02-01 16:41     ` ron minnich
2011-02-01 16:25   ` Charles Forsyth
2011-02-01  7:01 ` Federico G. Benavento
2011-02-02 19:05   ` smiley
2011-02-03 10:16     ` [9fans] HELP: recoving important header file rudely clobbered Richard Miller
2011-02-03 10:24       ` dexen deVries
2011-02-03 10:27       ` dexen deVries
2011-02-03 10:23     ` Richard Miller
2011-02-03 10:37       ` roger peppe
2011-02-03 10:48         ` Lucio De Re
2011-02-02  6:56 [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, WAS: Re: RESOLVED: recoving important header file rudely Jacob Todd
2011-02-02  7:06 ` ron minnich
2011-02-02  7:25   ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-02  7:25   ` Lucio De Re
2011-02-02  7:35 ` Nick LaForge
2011-02-02 17:45   ` David Leimbach
2011-02-02 19:19     ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-03  0:30       ` Charles Forsyth
2011-02-03  0:21         ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-03  0:52           ` Charles Forsyth
2011-02-03  0:50             ` ron minnich
2011-02-03  2:16             ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-03  2:25               ` David Leimbach
2011-02-03  2:26               ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-03 15:08                 ` David Leimbach
2011-02-03 16:19                   ` Eugene Gorodinsky
2011-02-03 17:41                   ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-03 18:11                     ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-03 18:33                       ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-03 18:54                         ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-03 19:40                           ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-03 20:33                             ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-04  7:16                               ` Bakul Shah
2011-02-04 14:38                                 ` erik quanstrom
2011-02-03 18:29                     ` Joseph Stewart
2011-02-03  8:35               ` Charles Forsyth
2011-02-03  8:56                 ` EBo
2011-02-03  9:46                   ` Charles Forsyth
2011-02-03  9:47                     ` EBo
2011-02-03  9:50                       ` Lucio De Re
2011-02-03 10:38                       ` C H Forsyth
2011-02-03 12:07                         ` EBo
2011-02-03 20:49                           ` Federico G. Benavento
2011-02-03 21:07                             ` ron minnich
2011-02-03 21:32                               ` Steve Simon
2011-02-03 23:19                                 ` EBo
2011-02-03 18:21                       ` smiley
2011-02-03 18:50                         ` John Floren
2011-02-04  5:54       ` andrey mirtchovski

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to='AANLkTikA2u9AVa8KZyhBYmL3ziKqBeh1Zs=eqRm0+5W9@mail.gmail.com' \
    --to=devon.odell@gmail.com \
    --cc=9fans@9fans.net \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).