Bill's Laval notes

Bill's Laval notes

[Michael Barr, Prof.]

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Let's suppose we can find a copy.  Fatima has asked Danilo, who is dealing with Bill's paper, to look for it.  Is there enough interest to support a retyping project?  I would be willing to coordinate it, as I have done with a couple of other things not published in regular journals.  The idea is to get enough people to type maybe 10 pages each, then I would put them together, get the LaTeX coordinated and post it somewhere, maybe as a TAC reprint.

Michael


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Re: Bill's Laval notes

[Valeria de Paiva]

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Dear Mike,
Thanks for the recent lovely histories and also for suggesting this project of retyping Bill's Laval lecture notes!

>Is there enough interest to support a retyping project?
I think so.  I'd be willing to type 10 pages, again, as I did when you coordinated the typing of Beck's thesis.

But maybe the question should be asked in the categories zulip.  There are plenty of energetic and enthusiastic young ones there, who would would probably jump at the chance.

all the best,
Valeria


On Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 1:30 PM Michael Barr, Prof. <barr.michael@mcgill.ca<mailto:barr.michael@mcgill.ca>> wrote:
Let's suppose we can find a copy.  Fatima has asked Danilo, who is dealing with Bill's paper, to look for it.  Is there enough interest to support a retyping project?  I would be willing to coordinate it, as I have done with a couple of other things not published in regular journals.  The idea is to get enough people to type maybe 10 pages each, then I would put them together, get the LaTeX coordinated and post it somewhere, maybe as a TAC reprint.

Michael


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Re: Bill's Laval notes

[Ben Webster]

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If you use Overleaf, you won’t even have to worry about putting them together, people can just work simultaneously in the document.

From: Michael Barr, Prof. <barr.michael@mcgill.ca>
Date: Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 4:30 PM
To: cmuster@gmx.net <cmuster@gmx.net>, categories@mq.edu.au <categories@mq.edu.au>
Subject: Bill's Laval notes
Let's suppose we can find a copy.  Fatima has asked Danilo, who is dealing with Bill's paper, to look for it.  Is there enough interest to support a retyping project?  I would be willing to coordinate it, as I have done with a couple of other things not published in regular journals.  The idea is to get enough people to type maybe 10 pages each, then I would put them together, get the LaTeX coordinated and post it somewhere, maybe as a TAC reprint.

Michael


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Re: Bill's Laval notes

[David Roberts]

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I helped with the LaTeXing of Leroy's thesis (https://agrothendieck.github.io/divers/leroy.pdf<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/QsAvC1WLjwsYxYvwuysbpM?domain=agrothendieck.github.io>), it was done in Overleaf and Mateo Carmona and Niels Borne did the initial transcription and proof-reading/editing while I typeset in the diagrams.

Best,

David

David Roberts
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On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 at 09:49, Ben Webster <bwebste@gmail.com<mailto:bwebste@gmail.com>> wrote:
CAUTION: External email. Only click on links or open attachments from trusted senders.

________________________________
If you use Overleaf, you won’t even have to worry about putting them together, people can just work simultaneously in the document.

From: Michael Barr, Prof. <barr.michael@mcgill.ca<mailto:barr.michael@mcgill.ca>>
Date: Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 4:30 PM
To: cmuster@gmx.net<mailto:cmuster@gmx.net> <cmuster@gmx.net<mailto:cmuster@gmx.net>>, categories@mq.edu.au<mailto:categories@mq.edu.au> <categories@mq.edu.au<mailto:categories@mq.edu.au>>
Subject: Bill's Laval notes
Let's suppose we can find a copy.  Fatima has asked Danilo, who is dealing with Bill's paper, to look for it.  Is there enough interest to support a retyping project?  I would be willing to coordinate it, as I have done with a couple of other things not published in regular journals.  The idea is to get enough people to type maybe 10 pages each, then I would put them together, get the LaTeX coordinated and post it somewhere, maybe as a TAC reprint.

Michael


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Re: Bill's Laval notes

[Dusko Pavlovic]

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> If you use Overleaf, you won’t even have to worry about putting them together, people can just work simultaneously in the document.

if we really want to be up to date, we should probably go beyond overleaf and use one of the LLama 2 APIs to generate latex. (a long long time ago someone tried to use overleaf on top of gpt3.5 and it was a little messy)

BUT the fact that we all want to read *Lawvere's* lectures seems to be saying that some things in the past used to be more fun than some things in the future.

so my vote would be to ask mike to organize the typesetting whichever way he is used to doing it, having organized it so many times :)

-- dusko

On Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 12:49 PM Ben Webster <bwebste@gmail.com<mailto:bwebste@gmail.com>> wrote:
If you use Overleaf, you won’t even have to worry about putting them together, people can just work simultaneously in the document.

From: Michael Barr, Prof. <barr.michael@mcgill.ca<mailto:barr.michael@mcgill.ca>>
Date: Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 4:30 PM
To: cmuster@gmx.net<mailto:cmuster@gmx.net> <cmuster@gmx.net<mailto:cmuster@gmx.net>>, categories@mq.edu.au<mailto:categories@mq.edu.au> <categories@mq.edu.au<mailto:categories@mq.edu.au>>
Subject: Bill's Laval notes
Let's suppose we can find a copy.  Fatima has asked Danilo, who is dealing with Bill's paper, to look for it.  Is there enough interest to support a retyping project?  I would be willing to coordinate it, as I have done with a couple of other things not published in regular journals.  The idea is to get enough people to type maybe 10 pages each, then I would put them together, get the LaTeX coordinated and post it somewhere, maybe as a TAC reprint.

Michael


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Saving old papers on CT

[streicher]

I am also curious about the Laval notes by Lawvere.
Dusko made this remark that some of the old stuff may be more fun to read.
I do not want to comment on that but it could be that certain things had
more charm when they were still fresh as in the 70s.

In this context I want to bring up the issue of retyping some old stuff of
Benabou and alike which I have made accessible via my homepage some time
ago with the help of my former student J. Weinberger.
It is

Benabou's Montreal lectures (1974)

Benabou's Louvain-la-Neuve lectures (1980)

And the Theses of Celeyrette (197) and of Moens (1982)

as well as Chaper 1 of his never finished book Jon Fibered Categories
(about 100 pages).

I noticed that there was quite some interest in particular among younger
colleagues.

Therefore it might be worthwhile to save these things by publishing them
as TAC reprints.

I am fully aware that Jean was a controversial figure in his days. But he
also had quite some influence and his work on fibered categories is of
lasting value.

So I think it would be a service to the community to save this work in
particular because it was never formally published.

Hoping for a positive reaction,
Thomas



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Re: Saving old papers on CT

[Valeria de Paiva]

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Great idea, Thomas!
Very positive reaction over here, as you probably already knew.
I think you guys did a great job putting Benabou's writings on the web
(kudos to you!),
but I think TAC reprints would be much more accessible and would help
prevent people rediscovering the  wheel! and it doesn't even use up more
trees!
Best,
Valeria


On Thu, Jan 18, 2024 at 12:09 PM <streicher@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de>
wrote:

> I am also curious about the Laval notes by Lawvere.
> Dusko made this remark that some of the old stuff may be more fun to read.
> I do not want to comment on that but it could be that certain things had
> more charm when they were still fresh as in the 70s.
>
> In this context I want to bring up the issue of retyping some old stuff of
> Benabou and alike which I have made accessible via my homepage some time
> ago with the help of my former student J. Weinberger.
> It is
>
> Benabou's Montreal lectures (1974)
>
> Benabou's Louvain-la-Neuve lectures (1980)
>
> And the Theses of Celeyrette (197) and of Moens (1982)
>
> as well as Chaper 1 of his never finished book Jon Fibered Categories
> (about 100 pages).
>
> I noticed that there was quite some interest in particular among younger
> colleagues.
>
> Therefore it might be worthwhile to save these things by publishing them
> as TAC reprints.
>
> I am fully aware that Jean was a controversial figure in his days. But he
> also had quite some influence and his work on fibered categories is of
> lasting value.
>
> So I think it would be a service to the community to save this work in
> particular because it was never formally published.
>
> Hoping for a positive reaction,
> Thomas
>
>
>
> ----------
>
> You're receiving this message because you're a member of the Categories
> mailing list group from Macquarie University.
>
> Leave group:
>
> https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/UsD-CRONg6sLNYxrs9glE8?domain=outlook.office365.com
>

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Re: Saving old papers on CT

[Urs Schreiber]

On Fri, Jan 19, 2024 at 12:08 AM <streicher@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:

> I am fully aware that Jean was a controversial figure in his days.

Could you indicate what controversy this was?

Best wishes,
Urs



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Re: **EXTERN** Re: Saving old papers on CT

[Thomas Streicher]

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> > I am fully aware that Jean was a controversial figure in his days.
>
> Could you indicate what controversy this was?

It started before I got into categorical circles in the mid 80s.
Some of its traces can be found on the categories list.

One of the visible expressions is Jean's 1985 JSL article where he
devotes 2 pages explaining why his work was superior to the one of
Par'e and Schumacher in a way much more explicit than usual.

As I understand it he presented his work 1974 in lectures of at Montreal.
A couple of years later Pare and Schumacher came up with their long
article phrasing things in the language of indexed cats. Jean
complained about certain defects of the latter approach. But as I
understand he was essentially upset that they published his material
before him. But he definitely was a perfectionist and the writing of
the book was never finished.

That is the impression of a person who was not involved those days and
just knows things from rumour and what people said.

I know Jean as a very polite person but also that under certain
circumstances he could easily "explode".

I heard him talk the first time at Logic Colloquium in Firenze in 1982
where he gave a very condensed version of his later JSL article
including the controversy. I noticed that there was an obvious tension
in the room. But I didn't care and rather got curious about fibered
categories. I received very early a copy of Roisin's handwritten notes
which I read with great delight. Over the years I got into it more and more
and finally when asked to lecture on it in Munich in 1999 I strated to
prepare some notes for myself in order to not forget about material
which was not easily available. For me it is an indispensible tool for
doing category theory over arbitrary base toposes.

Your question shows that a younger generation of category theorists
is not aware of those things. In a sense this is good so and normal since
it allows to look at things in a more objective way.

But since this material was never really published and the copies I provided
are not of the best quality (see
https://www2.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de/~streicher/FibCatTexts/)<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/SqgqCyoj8PuMEVoqcM2-CM?domain=mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de> I
think it would be a service to the community to have them available in
more readable form.

Whether it is necessary to translate them I am not so sure.

In any case I am not interested in heating up an old and by now dead
conflict.
My intention just is to preserve important work for future generations
since I found reading it most delightful.

I was told to make an official submission but could not find any form
for that. Rather have the impression that these things are decided by some
responsible board. It is their decision but it might be helpful to
express on the cat-list whether one is interested in the preservation
of this material. Just to find out whether it is worth the effort to
retype those things.

Thomas



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Re: **EXTERN** Re: Saving old papers on CT

[John Baez]

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Hi -

Thomas Streicher wrote:

I was told to make an official submission but could not find any form
for that. Rather have the impression that these things are decided by some
responsible board. It is their decision but it might be helpful to
express on the cat-list whether one is interested in the preservation
of this material. Just to find out whether it is worth the effort to
retype those things.

I think it would be a good idea.   The TAC website says:

After obtaining written permission from any copyright holder, any three TAC Editors
may propose a work for TAC Reprints to the Managing Editor. The proposal will
be reported to all Editors.

There are probably three TAC editors reading this now, but you could also contact
several of them and suggest doing this.  They are listed on the TAC website.

I don't think the TAC editors should bear the whole burden of seeking old category
theory articles worth reprinting.  There should be some mechanism to bring such
papers to their attention.

Best,
jb



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Re: Saving old papers on CT

[Jon Sterling]

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Dear Colleagues,

The works of Jean Bénabou and other pioneers of category theory deserve to be preserved. I'm very grateful to Thomas for taking the first steps toward to facilitate such a preservation, by making kindly these manuscripts available on his web site. Thomas's work to popularise the ideas of Jean Bénabou, through his many notes on fibred categories, distributors, etc. have also been very influential to me.  I applaud any further efforts toward retyping and publishing of reprints as well — the existing TAC reprints (e.g. of Lawvere and others) have been invaluable for me as a researcher in the youngest generation trying to pick up the pieces of category theory from the 'space age' that might otherwise be forgotten by people my age if not for the efforts of our colleagues to preserve them.

There's been too many times when I learned something first from a 'modern' source, perhaps filtered through the viewpoint of logicians and computer scientists, only to find that the primary source contains a much more comprehensive and satisfactory account. Taking up the challenge of preserving and making more accessible the old manuscripts will also do a lot to combat the perceived dominance of folklore in category theory.

If there's anything I can do to support this work (including typesetting!), I'm at your service.

Thanks,
Jon

On Fri, Jan 19, 2024, at 11:34 AM, Thomas Streicher wrote:
>> > I am fully aware that Jean was a controversial figure in his days.
>> 
>> Could you indicate what controversy this was?
>
> It started before I got into categorical circles in the mid 80s.
> Some of its traces can be found on the categories list.
>
> One of the visible expressions is Jean's 1985 JSL article where he
> devotes 2 pages explaining why his work was superior to the one of
> Par'e and Schumacher in a way much more explicit than usual.
>
> As I understand it he presented his work 1974 in lectures of at Montreal.
> A couple of years later Pare and Schumacher came up with their long
> article phrasing things in the language of indexed cats. Jean
> complained about certain defects of the latter approach. But as I
> understand he was essentially upset that they published his material
> before him. But he definitely was a perfectionist and the writing of
> the book was never finished.
>
> That is the impression of a person who was not involved those days and
> just knows things from rumour and what people said.
>
> I know Jean as a very polite person but also that under certain
> circumstances he could easily "explode".
>
> I heard him talk the first time at Logic Colloquium in Firenze in 1982
> where he gave a very condensed version of his later JSL article
> including the controversy. I noticed that there was an obvious tension
> in the room. But I didn't care and rather got curious about fibered
> categories. I received very early a copy of Roisin's handwritten notes
> which I read with great delight. Over the years I got into it more and more
> and finally when asked to lecture on it in Munich in 1999 I strated to
> prepare some notes for myself in order to not forget about material
> which was not easily available. For me it is an indispensible tool for
> doing category theory over arbitrary base toposes.
>
> Your question shows that a younger generation of category theorists
> is not aware of those things. In a sense this is good so and normal since
> it allows to look at things in a more objective way.
>
> But since this material was never really published and the copies I 
> provided
> are not of the best quality (see
> https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/W-TlCJyBZ6tYLx8QfVWj1R?domain=mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de) 
> <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/WwxrCK1DOrCnxLqrivGoLj?domain=mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de> 
> I
> think it would be a service to the community to have them available in
> more readable form.
>
> Whether it is necessary to translate them I am not so sure.
>
> In any case I am not interested in heating up an old and by now dead
> conflict.
> My intention just is to preserve important work for future generations
> since I found reading it most delightful.
>
> I was told to make an official submission but could not find any form
> for that. Rather have the impression that these things are decided by some
> responsible board. It is their decision but it might be helpful to
> express on the cat-list whether one is interested in the preservation
> of this material. Just to find out whether it is worth the effort to
> retype those things.
>
> Thomas
>
> 
> 
> You're receiving this message because you're a member of the Categories 
> mailing list group from Macquarie University. To take part in this 
> conversation, reply all to this message. 
> 
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Bill's Laval notes

[rlk]

Michael Barr, Prof. writes:

> Let's suppose we can find a copy.  Fatima has asked Danilo, who is dealing
> with Bill's paper, to look for it.  Is there enough interest to support a
> retyping project?  I would be willing to coordinate it, as I have done with
> a couple of other things not published in regular journals.  The idea is to
> get enough people to type maybe 10 pages each, then I would put them
> together, get the LaTeX coordinated and post it somewhere, maybe as a TAC
> reprint.
 >
 > Michael
 >
You will probably be oversubscribed but having helped with a couple of these
projects before I am delighted to offer my help any way I can.

-- Bob

--
Robert L. Knighten
541-296-4528
RLK@knighten.org



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