* \showmakeup adds unwanted space despite accurate readings; \qquad mandatory before \TeX\
@ 2023-07-05 13:18 Carlos
2023-07-05 13:32 ` Carlos
2023-07-05 14:43 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 2 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Carlos @ 2023-07-05 13:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
\showmakeup on \TeX\ shows a
tSP:3.282
THK:-1.721
H__E
X
HK:-1.291
SP:3.282
I assume that SP stands for space. Correct me if I'm wrong
After reading some of the manuals that mention \showmakeup with and
without [spaces] and so forth, I couldn't find any more info related
to this.
If anyone can provide me more information as to what does HK means there?
Anyhow
If I were to have, say, a control _word_ such as \TeX\, the sequence of
TeX kerning is thrown off. The only remedy would be to have a a \qquad
preceding the control sequence e.g., {\qquad
\TeX\ significantly} to sort of ameliorate this side-effect. But then
again. Spacing is off. e.g.,
The separation of any of these four components would have
hurt {\qquad\TeX\ significantly}. If I had not participated fully in
But it's interesting that \showmakeup, kerning and spaces would
display what's to be expected. And yet, the aformentioned set of
tSP:3.282
THK:-1.721
H__E
X
HK:-1.291
SP:3.282
is accurate nevertheless. And a very nice implementation at that,
but one I fear can't be included on a final document either.
With that being said, the introduction of a \qquad, in addition to
\showmakeup with, say, redundancy aside, whatever is preceding the \TeX\
alongside the file would also introduce a space where no space was ever
there before.
Because of all of this, and unfortunately, \showmakeup is not quite helpful
here either. Although it does so displays the amount of spaces and
so forth, any addition of a \qquad also adds a very subtle unwanted
space.
And since we're looking here, I pressume, solely for accuracy and
perfection, we're left here with neither: zero, zip. It evaporates.
--
Dear Emily:
I'm still confused as to what groups articles should be posted
to. How about an example?
-- Still Confused
Dear Still:
Ok. Let's say you want to report that Gretzky has been traded from
the Oilers to the Kings. Now right away you might think rec.sport.hockey
would be enough. WRONG. Many more people might be interested. This is a
big trade! Since it's a NEWS article, it belongs in the news.* hierarchy
as well. If you are a news admin, or there is one on your machine, try
news.admin. If not, use news.misc.
The Oilers are probably interested in geology, so try sci.physics.
He is a big star, so post to sci.astro, and sci.space because they are also
interested in stars. Next, his name is Polish sounding. So post to
soc.culture.polish. But that group doesn't exist, so cross-post to
news.groups suggesting it should be created. With this many groups of
interest, your article will be quite bizarre, so post to talk.bizarre as
well. (And post to comp.std.mumps, since they hardly get any articles
there, and a "comp" group will propagate your article further.)
You may also find it is more fun to post the article once in each
group. If you list all the newsgroups in the same article, some newsreaders
will only show the article to the reader once! Don't tolerate this.
-- Emily Postnews Answers Your Questions on Netiquette
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: \showmakeup adds unwanted space despite accurate readings; \qquad mandatory before \TeX\
2023-07-05 13:18 \showmakeup adds unwanted space despite accurate readings; \qquad mandatory before \TeX\ Carlos
@ 2023-07-05 13:32 ` Carlos
2023-07-05 13:46 ` Carlos
2023-07-05 14:43 ` Hans Hagen
1 sibling, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Carlos @ 2023-07-05 13:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
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On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 09:18:35AM -0400, Carlos wrote:
> \showmakeup on \TeX\ shows a
>
> tSP:3.282
> THK:-1.721
> H__E
> X
> HK:-1.291
> SP:3.282
>
> I assume that SP stands for space. Correct me if I'm wrong
>
> After reading some of the manuals that mention \showmakeup with and
> without [spaces] and so forth, I couldn't find any more info related
> to this.
>
> If anyone can provide me more information as to what does HK means there?
>
> Anyhow
>
> If I were to have, say, a control _word_ such as \TeX\, the sequence of
> TeX kerning is thrown off. The only remedy would be to have a a \qquad
> preceding the control sequence e.g., {\qquad
> \TeX\ significantly} to sort of ameliorate this side-effect. But then
> again. Spacing is off. e.g.,
>
> The separation of any of these four components would have
> hurt {\qquad\TeX\ significantly}. If I had not participated fully in
>
> But it's interesting that \showmakeup, kerning and spaces would
> display what's to be expected. And yet, the aformentioned set of
>
> tSP:3.282
> THK:-1.721
> H__E
> X
> HK:-1.291
> SP:3.282
>
> is accurate nevertheless. And a very nice implementation at that,
> but one I fear can't be included on a final document either.
>
> With that being said, the introduction of a \qquad, in addition to
> \showmakeup with, say, redundancy aside, whatever is preceding the \TeX\
> alongside the file would also introduce a space where no space was ever
> there before.
>
> Because of all of this, and unfortunately, \showmakeup is not quite helpful
> here either. Although it does so displays the amount of spaces and
> so forth, any addition of a \qquad also adds a very subtle unwanted
> space.
>
> And since we're looking here, I pressume, solely for accuracy and
> perfection, we're left here with neither: zero, zip. It evaporates.
>
>
> --
> Dear Emily:
> I'm still confused as to what groups articles should be posted
> to. How about an example?
> -- Still Confused
>
> Dear Still:
> Ok. Let's say you want to report that Gretzky has been traded from
> the Oilers to the Kings. Now right away you might think rec.sport.hockey
> would be enough. WRONG. Many more people might be interested. This is a
> big trade! Since it's a NEWS article, it belongs in the news.* hierarchy
> as well. If you are a news admin, or there is one on your machine, try
> news.admin. If not, use news.misc.
> The Oilers are probably interested in geology, so try sci.physics.
> He is a big star, so post to sci.astro, and sci.space because they are also
> interested in stars. Next, his name is Polish sounding. So post to
> soc.culture.polish. But that group doesn't exist, so cross-post to
> news.groups suggesting it should be created. With this many groups of
> interest, your article will be quite bizarre, so post to talk.bizarre as
> well. (And post to comp.std.mumps, since they hardly get any articles
> there, and a "comp" group will propagate your article further.)
> You may also find it is more fun to post the article once in each
> group. If you list all the newsgroups in the same article, some newsreaders
> will only show the article to the reader once! Don't tolerate this.
> -- Emily Postnews Answers Your Questions on Netiquette
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : https://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
--
As of next Tuesday, C will be flushed in favor of COBOL.
Please update your programs.
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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: \showmakeup adds unwanted space despite accurate readings; \qquad mandatory before \TeX\
2023-07-05 13:32 ` Carlos
@ 2023-07-05 13:46 ` Carlos
0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Carlos @ 2023-07-05 13:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
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On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 09:32:51AM -0400, Carlos wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 09:18:35AM -0400, Carlos wrote:
> > \showmakeup on \TeX\ shows a
> >
> > tSP:3.282
> > THK:-1.721
> > H__E
> > X
> > HK:-1.291
> > SP:3.282
> >
> > I assume that SP stands for space. Correct me if I'm wrong
> >
> > After reading some of the manuals that mention \showmakeup with and
> > without [spaces] and so forth, I couldn't find any more info related
> > to this.
> >
> > If anyone can provide me more information as to what does HK means there?
> >
> > Anyhow
> >
> > If I were to have, say, a control _word_ such as \TeX\, the sequence of
> > TeX kerning is thrown off. The only remedy would be to have a a \qquad
> > preceding the control sequence e.g., {\qquad
> > \TeX\ significantly} to sort of ameliorate this side-effect. But then
> > again. Spacing is off. e.g.,
> >
> > The separation of any of these four components would have
> > hurt {\qquad\TeX\ significantly}. If I had not participated fully in
> >
> > But it's interesting that \showmakeup, kerning and spaces would
> > display what's to be expected. And yet, the aformentioned set of
> >
> > tSP:3.282
> > THK:-1.721
> > H__E
> > X
> > HK:-1.291
> > SP:3.282
> >
> > is accurate nevertheless. And a very nice implementation at that,
> > but one I fear can't be included on a final document either.
> >
> > With that being said, the introduction of a \qquad, in addition to
> > \showmakeup with, say, redundancy aside, whatever is preceding the \TeX\
> > alongside the file would also introduce a space where no space was ever
> > there before.
> >
> > Because of all of this, and unfortunately, \showmakeup is not quite helpful
> > here either. Although it does so displays the amount of spaces and
> > so forth, any addition of a \qquad also adds a very subtle unwanted
> > space.
this is the space I referred to here. Please see the attached screenshot
> >
> > And since we're looking here, I pressume, solely for accuracy and
> > perfection, we're left here with neither: zero, zip. It evaporates.
> >
> >
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : https://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
--
It's ten o'clock; do you know where your processes are?
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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: \showmakeup adds unwanted space despite accurate readings; \qquad mandatory before \TeX\
2023-07-05 13:18 \showmakeup adds unwanted space despite accurate readings; \qquad mandatory before \TeX\ Carlos
2023-07-05 13:32 ` Carlos
@ 2023-07-05 14:43 ` Hans Hagen
2023-07-05 15:53 ` Carlos
1 sibling, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2023-07-05 14:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On 7/5/2023 3:18 PM, Carlos wrote:
> \showmakeup on \TeX\ shows a
>
> tSP:3.282
> THK:-1.721
> H__E
> X
> HK:-1.291
> SP:3.282
no MWE includes so clueless
> I assume that SP stands for space. Correct me if I'm wrong
>
> After reading some of the manuals that mention \showmakeup with and
> without [spaces] and so forth, I couldn't find any more info related
> to this.
>
> If anyone can provide me more information as to what does HK means there?
horizontal kern
> Anyhow
>
> If I were to have, say, a control _word_ such as \TeX\, the sequence of
> TeX kerning is thrown off. The only remedy would be to have a a \qquad
> preceding the control sequence e.g., {\qquad
> \TeX\ significantly} to sort of ameliorate this side-effect. But then
> again. Spacing is off. e.g.,
no MWE so a space cam come from anywhwere
> The separation of any of these four components would have
> hurt {\qquad\TeX\ significantly}. If I had not participated fully in
x{\showmakeup[glue]x\qquad x}x
imo \qquad is okay
> But it's interesting that \showmakeup, kerning and spaces would
> display what's to be expected. And yet, the aformentioned set of
>
> tSP:3.282
> THK:-1.721
> H__E
> X
> HK:-1.291
> SP:3.282
>
> is accurate nevertheless. And a very nice implementation at that,
> but one I fear can't be included on a final document either.
>
> With that being said, the introduction of a \qquad, in addition to
> \showmakeup with, say, redundancy aside, whatever is preceding the \TeX\
> alongside the file would also introduce a space where no space was ever
> there before.
>
> Because of all of this, and unfortunately, \showmakeup is not quite helpful
> here either. Although it does so displays the amount of spaces and
> so forth, any addition of a \qquad also adds a very subtle unwanted
> space.
qquad is not that subtle: 2em
> And since we're looking here, I pressume, solely for accuracy and
> perfection, we're left here with neither: zero, zip. It evaporates.
puzzled
> Dear Emily:
> I'm still confused as to what groups articles should be posted
> to. How about an example?
> -- Still Confused
>
> Dear Still:
can we omit these confusing additions in mails to the list? looks /
sounds like a 'bot' to me
Hans
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: \showmakeup adds unwanted space despite accurate readings; \qquad mandatory before \TeX\
2023-07-05 14:43 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2023-07-05 15:53 ` Carlos
2023-07-05 16:07 ` Carlos
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Carlos @ 2023-07-05 15:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 04:43:56PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 7/5/2023 3:18 PM, Carlos wrote:
> > \showmakeup on \TeX\ shows a
> >
> > tSP:3.282
> > THK:-1.721
> > H__E
> > X
> > HK:-1.291
> > SP:3.282
>
> no MWE includes so clueless
\starttypescript[mylucidaserif]
\definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightRegular] [file:LucidaBrightRegular]
\definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightItalic] [file:LucidaBrightItalic]
\definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightDemiBold] [file:LucidaBrightDemiBold]
\definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightDemiItalic] [file:LucidaBrightDemiItalic]
\stoptypescript
\starttypescript [mylucidaserif]
\setups[font:fallback:serif]
\definefontsynonym[Serif] [LucidaBrightRegular] [features=default]
\definefontsynonym[SerifItalic] [LucidaBrightItalic] [features=default]
\definefontsynonym[SerifBold] [LucidaBrightDemiBold] [features=default]
\definefontsynonym[SerifBoldItalic] [LucidaBrightDemiItalic] [features=default]
\stoptypescript
\starttypescript[mylucidasans]
\definefontsynonym[LucidaSansRegular] [file:LucidaSansRegular]
\definefontsynonym[LucidaSansOblique] [file:LucidaSansOblique]
\definefontsynonym[LucidaSansDemiBold] [file:LucidaSansDemiBold]
\stoptypescript
\starttypescript[mylucidasans]
\setups[font:fallback:sans]
\definefontsynonym[Sans] [LucidaSansRegular] [features=default]
\definefontsynonym[LucidaSansItalic] [LucidaSansOblique] [features=default]
\definefontsynonym[LucidaSansSansBold] [LucidaSansDemiBold] [features=default]
\stoptypescript
\starttypescript [mylucidaserif]
\definetypeface [mylucidaserif] [rm] [serif] [mylucidaserif] [default]
\definetypeface [mylucidaserif] [ss] [sans] [mylucidasans] [default]
\stoptypescript
\setupbodyfont[mylucidaserif]
%\setupbodyfont[mylucidasans]
%\setupbodyfont[14pt]
\starttext
Thus, I came to the conclusion that the designer of a new
system must not only be the implementer and first
large||scale user; the designer should also write the first
user manual.
The separation of any of these four components would have
hurt \TeX\ significantly. If I had not participated fully in
all these activities, literally hundreds of improvements
would never have been made, because I would never have
thought of them or perceived why they were important.
But a system cannot be successful if it is too strongly
influenced by a single person. Once the initial design is
complete and fairly robust, the real test begins as people
with many different viewpoints undertake their own
experiments.
\stoptext
>
> > I assume that SP stands for space. Correct me if I'm wrong
> >
> > After reading some of the manuals that mention \showmakeup with and
> > without [spaces] and so forth, I couldn't find any more info related
> > to this.
> >
> > If anyone can provide me more information as to what does HK means there?
>
> horizontal kern
thanks
(sorry for duplicate messages. sending out to mailing list works
sporadically Sometimes works, other times doesn't).
>
> > Anyhow
> >
> > If I were to have, say, a control _word_ such as \TeX\, the sequence of
> > TeX kerning is thrown off. The only remedy would be to have a a \qquad
> > preceding the control sequence e.g., {\qquad
> > \TeX\ significantly} to sort of ameliorate this side-effect. But then
> > again. Spacing is off. e.g.,
>
> no MWE so a space cam come from anywhwere
>
> > The separation of any of these four components would have
> > hurt {\qquad\TeX\ significantly}. If I had not participated fully in
>
> x{\showmakeup[glue]x\qquad x}x
>
> imo \qquad is okay
>
> > But it's interesting that \showmakeup, kerning and spaces would
> > display what's to be expected. And yet, the aformentioned set of
> >
> > tSP:3.282
> > THK:-1.721
> > H__E
> > X
> > HK:-1.291
> > SP:3.282
> >
> > is accurate nevertheless. And a very nice implementation at that,
> > but one I fear can't be included on a final document either.
> >
> > With that being said, the introduction of a \qquad, in addition to
> > \showmakeup with, say, redundancy aside, whatever is preceding the \TeX\
> > alongside the file would also introduce a space where no space was ever
> > there before.
> >
> > Because of all of this, and unfortunately, \showmakeup is not quite helpful
> > here either. Although it does so displays the amount of spaces and
> > so forth, any addition of a \qquad also adds a very subtle unwanted
> > space.
>
> qquad is not that subtle: 2em
>
> > And since we're looking here, I pressume, solely for accuracy and
> > perfection, we're left here with neither: zero, zip. It evaporates.
> puzzled
>
> > Dear Emily:
> > I'm still confused as to what groups articles should be posted
> > to. How about an example?
> > -- Still Confused
> >
> > Dear Still:
>
> can we omit these confusing additions in mails to the list? looks / sounds
> like a 'bot' to me
>
> Hans
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
> Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
> tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : https://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
--
Imagine that Cray computer decides to make a personal computer. It has
a 150 MHz processor, 200 megabytes of RAM, 1500 megabytes of disk
storage, a screen resolution of 4096 x 4096 pixels, relies entirely on
voice recognition for input, fits in your shirt pocket and costs $300.
What's the first question that the computer community asks?
"Is it PC compatible?"
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: \showmakeup adds unwanted space despite accurate readings; \qquad mandatory before \TeX\
2023-07-05 15:53 ` Carlos
@ 2023-07-05 16:07 ` Carlos
2023-07-05 16:12 ` Hans Hagen
2023-07-05 16:15 ` Alan Braslau via ntg-context
2 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Carlos @ 2023-07-05 16:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 11:53:47AM -0400, Carlos wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 04:43:56PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
> > On 7/5/2023 3:18 PM, Carlos wrote:
> > > \showmakeup on \TeX\ shows a
> > >
> > > tSP:3.282
> > > THK:-1.721
> > > H__E
> > > X
> > > HK:-1.291
> > > SP:3.282
> >
> > no MWE includes so clueless
>
> \starttypescript[mylucidaserif]
> \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightRegular] [file:LucidaBrightRegular]
> \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightItalic] [file:LucidaBrightItalic]
> \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightDemiBold] [file:LucidaBrightDemiBold]
> \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightDemiItalic] [file:LucidaBrightDemiItalic]
> \stoptypescript
>
> \starttypescript [mylucidaserif]
> \setups[font:fallback:serif]
> \definefontsynonym[Serif] [LucidaBrightRegular] [features=default]
> \definefontsynonym[SerifItalic] [LucidaBrightItalic] [features=default]
> \definefontsynonym[SerifBold] [LucidaBrightDemiBold] [features=default]
> \definefontsynonym[SerifBoldItalic] [LucidaBrightDemiItalic] [features=default]
> \stoptypescript
>
> \starttypescript[mylucidasans]
> \definefontsynonym[LucidaSansRegular] [file:LucidaSansRegular]
> \definefontsynonym[LucidaSansOblique] [file:LucidaSansOblique]
> \definefontsynonym[LucidaSansDemiBold] [file:LucidaSansDemiBold]
> \stoptypescript
>
> \starttypescript[mylucidasans]
> \setups[font:fallback:sans]
> \definefontsynonym[Sans] [LucidaSansRegular] [features=default]
> \definefontsynonym[LucidaSansItalic] [LucidaSansOblique] [features=default]
> \definefontsynonym[LucidaSansSansBold] [LucidaSansDemiBold] [features=default]
> \stoptypescript
>
> \starttypescript [mylucidaserif]
> \definetypeface [mylucidaserif] [rm] [serif] [mylucidaserif] [default]
> \definetypeface [mylucidaserif] [ss] [sans] [mylucidasans] [default]
> \stoptypescript
>
> \setupbodyfont[mylucidaserif]
> %\setupbodyfont[mylucidasans]
> %\setupbodyfont[14pt]
>
> \starttext
>
> Thus, I came to the conclusion that the designer of a new
> system must not only be the implementer and first
> large||scale user; the designer should also write the first
> user manual.
>
> The separation of any of these four components would have
> hurt \TeX\ significantly. If I had not participated fully in
> all these activities, literally hundreds of improvements
> would never have been made, because I would never have
> thought of them or perceived why they were important.
>
> But a system cannot be successful if it is too strongly
> influenced by a single person. Once the initial design is
> complete and fairly robust, the real test begins as people
> with many different viewpoints undertake their own
> experiments.
>
> \stoptext
Loading only one font this time around, but it makes no difference.
Also. thought of forgot to mention that the above with
\starttypescript[mylucida] or \starttypescript [mylucida]
yields the same results every time
and here is the log
system >
system > ConTeXt ver: 2023.06.04 18:58 LMTX fmt: 2023.6.5 int: english/english
system >
system > 'cont-new.mkxl' loaded
open source > level 1, order 1, name '/context-lmtx-2/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/cont-new.mkxl'
system > beware: some patches loaded from cont-new.mkiv
close source > level 1, order 1, name '/context-lmtx-2/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/cont-new.mkxl'
system > files > jobname './atestinlucida-OTF-99', input './atestinlucida-OTF-99.mkiv', result './atestinlucida-OTF-99'
fonts > latin modern fonts are not preloaded
languages > language 'en' is active
open source > level 1, order 2, name './atestinlucida-OTF-99.mkiv'
fonts > preloading modern (math)
fonts > 'fallback modern mm 12pt' is loaded
fonts > preloading modern (mono)
fonts > 'fallback modern tt 12pt' is loaded
backend > xmp > using file '/context-lmtx-2/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/lpdf-pdx.xml'
pages > flushing realpage 1, userpage 1, subpage 1
close source > level 1, order 2, name './atestinlucida-OTF-99.mkiv'
backend > fonts > width units in 'VXLOQV+LucidaBright' are 2048, forcing 1000 instead
system > start used files
system > text: atestinlucida-OTF-99
system > stop used files
system > start used files
system > 1: filename=publ-imp-default.lua filetype=scripts foundname=/context-lmtx-2/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/publ-imp-default.lua fullname=/context-lmtx-2/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/publ-imp-default.lua usedmethod=database
system > 2: filename=cont-new.mkxl filetype=tex foundname=/context-lmtx-2/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/cont-new.mkxl fullname=/context-lmtx-2/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/cont-new.mkxl usedmethod=database
system > 3: filename=lang-exc.lua filetype=scripts foundname=/context-lmtx-2/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/lang-exc.lua fullname=/context-lmtx-2/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/lang-exc.lua usedmethod=database
system > 4: filename=lang-us.lua filetype=scripts foundname=/context-lmtx-2/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/patterns/mkiv/lang-us.lua fullname=/context-lmtx-2/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/patterns/mkiv/lang-us.lua usedmethod=database
system > 5: filename=/Documents/context-files/atestinlucida-OTF-99.mkiv format=tex foundname=/Documents/context-files/atestinlucida-OTF-99.mkiv fullname=/Documents/context-files/atestinlucida-OTF-99.mkiv usedmethod=direct
system > 6: filename=lm.lfg filetype=tex foundname=/context-lmtx-2/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/fonts/mkiv/lm.lfg fullname=/context-lmtx-2/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/fonts/mkiv/lm.lfg usedmethod=database
system > 7: filename=LucidaBrightRegular filetype=otf format=otf foundname=/usr/share/fonts/LucidaBrightRegular.otf fullname=/usr/share/fonts/LucidaBrightRegular.otf usedmethod=filesystem
system > 8: filename=latinmodern-math.otf filetype=otf format=otf foundname=/context-lmtx-2/tex/texmf/fonts/data/gust/lm/latinmodern-math.otf fullname=/context-lmtx-2/tex/texmf/fonts/data/gust/lm/latinmodern-math.otf usedmethod=database
system > 9: filename=modern-math.lfg filetype=tex foundname=/context-lmtx-2/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/fonts/mkiv/modern-math.lfg fullname=/context-lmtx-2/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/fonts/mkiv/modern-math.lfg usedmethod=database
system > 10: filename=common-math.lfg filetype=tex foundname=/context-lmtx-2/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/fonts/mkiv/common-math.lfg fullname=/context-lmtx-2/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/fonts/mkiv/common-math.lfg usedmethod=database
system > 11: filename=lpdf-pdx.xml filetype=tex foundname=/context-lmtx-2/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/lpdf-pdx.xml fullname=/context-lmtx-2/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/lpdf-pdx.xml usedmethod=database
system > stop used files
system > start commandline options
system > currentrun="1"
system > fulljobname="./atestinlucida-OTF-99.mkiv"
system > input="./atestinlucida-OTF-99.mkiv"
system > kindofrun="1"
system > maxnofruns="9"
system > texmfbinpath="/context-lmtx-2/tex/texmf-linuxmusl/bin"
system > stop commandline options
system > start commandline files
system > 1: ./atestinlucida-OTF-99.mkiv
system > stop commandline files
modules > start used modules
modules > stop used modules
system >
system > status after finishing run
system >
system > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
system > string pool hash lookup node token buffer input file nest parameter save font language mark insert
system > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
system > max 2097152 100000000 2097152 2097152 100000000 10000000 100000000 100000 2000 10000 100000 500000 100000 10000 10000 500
system > min 150000 10000000 150000 150000 2000000 1000000 1000000 10000 500 1000 20000 100000 250 250 50 10
system > set 500000 10000000 250000 250000 50000000 10000000 10000000 100000 2000 10000 100000 500000 100000 250 250 250
system > stp 100000 1000000 100000 100000 500000 250000 1000000 10000 250 1000 10000 10000 250 250 50 25
system >
system > mem 150000 969313 150000 2000000 1000000 1000000 10000 500 1000 20000 10000 6491376 96 1200 320
system > all 2400000 969313 2400000 18000000 8000000 1000000 320000 16000 72000 80000 160000 6491376 96 28800 10240
system >
system > ini 2145695 919716 0 48526 0 530329 0
system > ptr 50218 10054 50201 565577 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 0 0 7
system > top 50219 806398 131074 14831 573482 156 36 5 12 37 356 250 250 50 10
system > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
system >
system > current input type : initial
system >
system > approximate memory : 43283217 (41 MB)
system >
system > expansion depth : min: 10000, max: 1000000, set: 10000, top: 5
system >
system > luabytecode registers : 1011
system > luabytecode bytes : 16192 (0 MB)
system > luastate bytes now : 62130578 (59 MB)
system > luastate bytes max : 62130578 (59 MB)
system >
system > file callbacks : 113
system > saved callbacks : 245
system > direct callbacks : 2
system > function callbacks : 1242
system > value callbacks : 2
system > message callbacks : 0
system > bytecode callbacks : 616
system >
system > mp instances : 0
system > mp estimated memory : 0 (0 MB)
system > mp file callbacks : 0
system > mp text callbacks : 0
system > mp script callbacks : 0
system > mp log callbacks : 0
system >
system > total callbacks : 2220
system > mp total callbacks : 0
system > backend callbacks : 0
system >
mkiv lua stats > used config file: selfautoparent:/texmf/web2c/texmfcnf.lua
mkiv lua stats > used cache path: /context-lmtx-2/tex/texmf-cache/luametatex-cache/context/5fe67e0bfe781ce0dde776fb1556f32e
mkiv lua stats > resource resolver: loadtime 0.006 seconds, 0 scans with scantime 0.000 seconds, 0 shared scans, 11 found files, scanned paths: <none>
mkiv lua stats > stored bytecode data: 511 modules (0.209 sec), 105 tables (0.011 sec), 616 chunks (0.220 sec)
mkiv lua stats > traced context: maxstack: 1705, freed: 0, unreachable: 1705
mkiv lua stats > cleaned up reserved nodes: 73 nodes, 7 lists of 435
mkiv lua stats > node memory usage: 9 attribute, 1 glue, 120 gluespec, 3 kern, 645 mathspec, 2 penalty, 2 temp
mkiv lua stats > node list callback tasks: 16 unique task lists, 10 instances (re)created, 84 calls
mkiv lua stats > used backend: pdf
mkiv lua stats > jobdata time: 0.001 seconds saving, 0.000 seconds loading
mkiv lua stats > callbacks: file: 113, saved: 245, direct: 2, function: 1242, value: 2, message: 0, bytecode: 616, late 0, total: 2220 (2220 per page)
mkiv lua stats > randomizer: resumed with value 0.39480589516671
mkiv lua stats > loaded patterns: en::1, load time: 0.000
mkiv lua stats > loaded fonts: 2 files: latinmodern-math.otf, lucidabrightregular.otf
mkiv lua stats > font engine: otf 3.133, afm 1.513, tfm 1.000, 7 instances, 3 shared in backend, 3 common vectors, 0 common hashes, load time 0.224 seconds
mkiv lua stats > math tweaking time: 0.068 seconds, 12 math goodie tables
mkiv lua stats > font embedding time: 0.001 seconds, 1 fonts
mkiv lua stats > result saved in file: atestinlucida-OTF-99.pdf, compresslevel 1, objectcompresslevel 3
mkiv lua stats > positions: 4 collected, 0 deltas, 0 shared partials, 0 partial entries
mkiv lua stats > used platform: linuxmusl, type: unix, binary subtree: texmf-linuxmusl
mkiv lua stats > used engine: luametatex version: 2.1009, functionality level: 20230604, format id: 693, compiler: clang
mkiv lua stats > tex properties: 806398 hash slots used of 2097152, 50201 control sequences, approximate memory usage: 41 MB
mkiv lua stats > lua properties: engine: lua 5.4, used memory: 62 MB, ctx: 59 MB, max: 59 MB, symbol mask: utf (τεχ)
mkiv lua stats > runtime: 0.508 seconds, 1 processed pages, 1 shipped pages, 1.967 pages/second
>
> >
> > > I assume that SP stands for space. Correct me if I'm wrong
> > >
> > > After reading some of the manuals that mention \showmakeup with and
> > > without [spaces] and so forth, I couldn't find any more info related
> > > to this.
> > >
> > > If anyone can provide me more information as to what does HK means there?
> >
> > horizontal kern
>
> thanks
>
> (sorry for duplicate messages. sending out to mailing list works
> sporadically Sometimes works, other times doesn't).
> >
> > > Anyhow
> > >
> > > If I were to have, say, a control _word_ such as \TeX\, the sequence of
> > > TeX kerning is thrown off. The only remedy would be to have a a \qquad
> > > preceding the control sequence e.g., {\qquad
> > > \TeX\ significantly} to sort of ameliorate this side-effect. But then
> > > again. Spacing is off. e.g.,
> >
> > no MWE so a space cam come from anywhwere
> >
> > > The separation of any of these four components would have
> > > hurt {\qquad\TeX\ significantly}. If I had not participated fully in
> >
> > x{\showmakeup[glue]x\qquad x}x
> >
> > imo \qquad is okay
> >
> > > But it's interesting that \showmakeup, kerning and spaces would
> > > display what's to be expected. And yet, the aformentioned set of
> > >
> > > tSP:3.282
> > > THK:-1.721
> > > H__E
> > > X
> > > HK:-1.291
> > > SP:3.282
> > >
> > > is accurate nevertheless. And a very nice implementation at that,
> > > but one I fear can't be included on a final document either.
> > >
> > > With that being said, the introduction of a \qquad, in addition to
> > > \showmakeup with, say, redundancy aside, whatever is preceding the \TeX\
> > > alongside the file would also introduce a space where no space was ever
> > > there before.
> > >
> > > Because of all of this, and unfortunately, \showmakeup is not quite helpful
> > > here either. Although it does so displays the amount of spaces and
> > > so forth, any addition of a \qquad also adds a very subtle unwanted
> > > space.
> >
> > qquad is not that subtle: 2em
> >
> > > And since we're looking here, I pressume, solely for accuracy and
> > > perfection, we're left here with neither: zero, zip. It evaporates.
> > puzzled
> >
> > > Dear Emily:
> > > I'm still confused as to what groups articles should be posted
> > > to. How about an example?
> > > -- Still Confused
> > >
> > > Dear Still:
> >
> > can we omit these confusing additions in mails to the list? looks / sounds
> > like a 'bot' to me
> >
> > Hans
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
> > Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
> > tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > ___________________________________________________________________________________
> > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> >
> > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> > webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> > wiki : https://contextgarden.net
> > ___________________________________________________________________________________
> >
>
> --
> Imagine that Cray computer decides to make a personal computer. It has
> a 150 MHz processor, 200 megabytes of RAM, 1500 megabytes of disk
> storage, a screen resolution of 4096 x 4096 pixels, relies entirely on
> voice recognition for input, fits in your shirt pocket and costs $300.
> What's the first question that the computer community asks?
>
> "Is it PC compatible?"
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : https://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
--
Life would be so much easier if we could just look at the source code.
-- Dave Olson
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: \showmakeup adds unwanted space despite accurate readings; \qquad mandatory before \TeX\
2023-07-05 15:53 ` Carlos
2023-07-05 16:07 ` Carlos
@ 2023-07-05 16:12 ` Hans Hagen
2023-07-05 16:38 ` Carlos
2023-07-05 17:05 ` Carlos
2023-07-05 16:15 ` Alan Braslau via ntg-context
2 siblings, 2 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2023-07-05 16:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On 7/5/2023 5:53 PM, Carlos wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 04:43:56PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> On 7/5/2023 3:18 PM, Carlos wrote:
>>> \showmakeup on \TeX\ shows a
>>>
>>> tSP:3.282
>>> THK:-1.721
>>> H__E
>>> X
>>> HK:-1.291
>>> SP:3.282
>>
>> no MWE includes so clueless
>
> \starttypescript[mylucidaserif]
> \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightRegular] [file:LucidaBrightRegular]
> \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightItalic] [file:LucidaBrightItalic]
> \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightDemiBold] [file:LucidaBrightDemiBold]
> \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightDemiItalic] [file:LucidaBrightDemiItalic]
> \stoptypescript
Hm, isn't that this lucida rip off again? Maybe bad metricks then but
I'm not going to look into that as the official TUG lucida opentype
fonts perform okay.
Hans
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: \showmakeup adds unwanted space despite accurate readings; \qquad mandatory before \TeX\
2023-07-05 15:53 ` Carlos
2023-07-05 16:07 ` Carlos
2023-07-05 16:12 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2023-07-05 16:15 ` Alan Braslau via ntg-context
2023-07-05 17:12 ` Carlos
2 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Alan Braslau via ntg-context @ 2023-07-05 16:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Carlos, Alan Braslau
On 05/07/23 05/07/23, 17:53, Carlos wrote:
> (sorry for duplicate messages. sending out to mailing list works
> sporadically Sometimes works, other times doesn't).
As reported, the contextgarden server was down following a disk
controller failure and had taken some time to be reconfigured with new
hardware and brought back online.
However, the request that I read was not about duplicate messages but
rather to avoid superfluous signature additions when posting to a
mailing list.
Alan
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: \showmakeup adds unwanted space despite accurate readings; \qquad mandatory before \TeX\
2023-07-05 16:12 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2023-07-05 16:38 ` Carlos
2023-07-05 16:52 ` Hans Hagen
2023-07-05 17:05 ` Carlos
1 sibling, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Carlos @ 2023-07-05 16:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 06:12:32PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 7/5/2023 5:53 PM, Carlos wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 04:43:56PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
> > > On 7/5/2023 3:18 PM, Carlos wrote:
> > > > \showmakeup on \TeX\ shows a
> > > >
> > > > tSP:3.282
> > > > THK:-1.721
> > > > H__E
> > > > X
> > > > HK:-1.291
> > > > SP:3.282
> > >
> > > no MWE includes so clueless
> >
> > \starttypescript[mylucidaserif]
> > \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightRegular] [file:LucidaBrightRegular]
> > \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightItalic] [file:LucidaBrightItalic]
> > \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightDemiBold] [file:LucidaBrightDemiBold]
> > \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightDemiItalic] [file:LucidaBrightDemiItalic]
> > \stoptypescript
> Hm, isn't that this lucida rip off again? Maybe bad metricks then but I'm
> not going to look into that as the official TUG lucida opentype fonts
> perform okay.
>
> Hans
The first sentence is irrelevant. And a guess. Bad metrics is not the
culprit
if it were true, the same problem would be under lualatex, correct?
But it's not there.
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
> Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
> tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : https://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
--
C is quirky, flawed, and an enormous success.
-- Dennis Ritchie (1941-2011), creator of the C programming language and of
UNIX
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: \showmakeup adds unwanted space despite accurate readings; \qquad mandatory before \TeX\
2023-07-05 16:38 ` Carlos
@ 2023-07-05 16:52 ` Hans Hagen
2023-07-06 13:16 ` Carlos
0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2023-07-05 16:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On 7/5/2023 6:38 PM, Carlos wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 06:12:32PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> On 7/5/2023 5:53 PM, Carlos wrote:
>>> On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 04:43:56PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>>> On 7/5/2023 3:18 PM, Carlos wrote:
>>>>> \showmakeup on \TeX\ shows a
>>>>>
>>>>> tSP:3.282
>>>>> THK:-1.721
>>>>> H__E
>>>>> X
>>>>> HK:-1.291
>>>>> SP:3.282
>>>>
>>>> no MWE includes so clueless
>>>
>>> \starttypescript[mylucidaserif]
>>> \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightRegular] [file:LucidaBrightRegular]
>>> \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightItalic] [file:LucidaBrightItalic]
>>> \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightDemiBold] [file:LucidaBrightDemiBold]
>>> \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightDemiItalic] [file:LucidaBrightDemiItalic]
>>> \stoptypescript
>> Hm, isn't that this lucida rip off again? Maybe bad metricks then but I'm
>> not going to look into that as the official TUG lucida opentype fonts
>> perform okay.
>>
>> Hans
>
> The first sentence is irrelevant. And a guess. Bad metrics is not the
> culprit
>
> if it were true, the same problem would be under lualatex, correct?
well, who knows what (me)tricks those fonts have embedded .. are these
the official TUG lucida open type fonts? if so,
\setupbodyfont[lucida]
should just work (btw, you also don't set up math)
> But it's not there.
I can't (and won't) check that as I don't have (lua)latex installed nor
have those fonts. I also don't see where this \qquad is in your example.
As for the \showmakup ... it is used extensively and afaiks there are no
issues with it.
Hans
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: \showmakeup adds unwanted space despite accurate readings; \qquad mandatory before \TeX\
2023-07-05 16:12 ` Hans Hagen
2023-07-05 16:38 ` Carlos
@ 2023-07-05 17:05 ` Carlos
2023-07-05 17:37 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context
1 sibling, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Carlos @ 2023-07-05 17:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 06:12:32PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 7/5/2023 5:53 PM, Carlos wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 04:43:56PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
> > > On 7/5/2023 3:18 PM, Carlos wrote:
> > > > \showmakeup on \TeX\ shows a
> > > >
> > > > tSP:3.282
> > > > THK:-1.721
> > > > H__E
> > > > X
> > > > HK:-1.291
> > > > SP:3.282
> > >
> > > no MWE includes so clueless
> >
> > \starttypescript[mylucidaserif]
> > \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightRegular] [file:LucidaBrightRegular]
> > \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightItalic] [file:LucidaBrightItalic]
> > \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightDemiBold] [file:LucidaBrightDemiBold]
> > \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightDemiItalic] [file:LucidaBrightDemiItalic]
> > \stoptypescript
> Hm, isn't that this lucida rip off again? Maybe bad metricks then but I'm
> not going to look into that as the official TUG lucida opentype fonts
> perform okay.
>
> Hans
Coincidentally speaking, a while ago (as a matter of fact this was last week),
I was reading about a heated discussion that happened a few decades
ago in which you said:
«i don't know the difference between input and font encoding and i
don't know what tfm and afm files contain and what they are used for,
and i don't know how to implement and use the right font /char handling
macros etc etc; but i *do* know and listen when a user who actually
uses some glyphs complains about something»
And I don't want to stir up anything here either, but if the convention of
using non-official vs official fonts is the new de facto under lmtx,
I guess my opening question is invalid by all acounts
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
> Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
> tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
--
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___________________________________________________________________________________
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: \showmakeup adds unwanted space despite accurate readings; \qquad mandatory before \TeX\
2023-07-05 16:15 ` Alan Braslau via ntg-context
@ 2023-07-05 17:12 ` Carlos
0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Carlos @ 2023-07-05 17:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 06:15:41PM +0200, Alan Braslau via ntg-context wrote:
> On 05/07/23 05/07/23, 17:53, Carlos wrote:
> > (sorry for duplicate messages. sending out to mailing list works
> > sporadically Sometimes works, other times doesn't).
>
> As reported, the contextgarden server was down following a disk controller
> failure and had taken some time to be reconfigured with new hardware and
> brought back online.
>
> However, the request that I read was not about duplicate messages but rather
> to avoid superfluous signature additions when posting to a mailing list.
>
> Alan
I have no clue what the heck you're talking about about the superflous
or whatever signature. Much less about you read or did not read.
Not related to my question.
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : https://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
--
[From the operation manual for the CI-300 Dot Matrix Line Printer, made
in Japan]:
The excellent output machine of MODEL CI-300 as extraordinary DOT MATRIX
LINE PRINTER, built in two MICRO-PROCESSORs as well as EAROM, is featured by
permitting wonderful co-existence such as; "high quality against low cost,"
"diversified functions with compact design," "flexibility in accessibleness
and durability of approx. 2000,000,00 Dot/Head," "being sophisticated in
mechanism but possibly agile operating under noises being extremely
suppressed" etc.
And as a matter of course, the final goal is just simply to help achieve
"super shuttle diplomacy" between cool data, perhaps earned by HOST
COMPUTER, and warm heart of human being.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: \showmakeup adds unwanted space despite accurate readings; \qquad mandatory before \TeX\
2023-07-05 17:05 ` Carlos
@ 2023-07-05 17:37 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context
2023-07-06 13:38 ` Carlos
0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen via ntg-context @ 2023-07-05 17:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context; +Cc: Hans Hagen
On 7/5/2023 7:05 PM, Carlos wrote:
> And I don't want to stir up anything here either, but if the convention of
> using non-official vs official fonts is the new de facto under lmtx,
> I guess my opening question is invalid by all acounts
Well, the policy wrt font is quite simple:
(1) one can define a typescript for any font, and one is free to mess
around in these as much as possible
(2) a proper font will normally work ok but of course there can be
exceptions
(3) if a font behaves bad one can ask on the list but then you need to
give a mwe + output + indication where something is wrong
(4) if you're lucky someone else has that font and can try, but keep in
mind that one cannot assume someone to spend time (it is not everyones
hobby to solve issues)
(5) if nothing works out you need to provide an official (properly
licenced copy, which in the case of a commercial font means that you
have to buy an extra copy)
(6) you have to keep in mind that you ask someone to spend time on
something that is not worth spending time on (in the case of lucida: the
ones from tug work fine, and we send quite some time on the math too, so
we see no reason to spend more time on it ... there is only so much you
can expect for free)
(7) you cannot claim someones time and to what extend questions get
answered also depends on the tone of the email, the way questions are
formulates, etc etc
that said ... if you think that you can deduce conventions from the fact
that it is impossible or hard to answer a (somewhat vague) question,
some introspection is needed ... i get the impressions that you have no
clue what the de-facto conventions are under lmtx so i'd be careful in
drawing conclusions
also said: i do know the difference between input and font encoding and
i do know what tfm and afm files contain and i also do know how to
implement font/char handling (unless i have to guess what encoding,
fonts, chars, engine an dmacro package a user is using in which case I
don't - want to - know any of this) but when a user complain in certain
ways i tend to not listen
(let's see what chat gpt mnakes of that in the future)
anyway, i don't have these fonts, i have working lucida setup as do
other users, so i see no problem
and, as your fonts work fine in lualatex, you have a way out of this
persistent font issue,
Hans
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: \showmakeup adds unwanted space despite accurate readings; \qquad mandatory before \TeX\
2023-07-05 16:52 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2023-07-06 13:16 ` Carlos
2023-07-06 16:57 ` Carlos
0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Carlos @ 2023-07-06 13:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 06:52:30PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 7/5/2023 6:38 PM, Carlos wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 06:12:32PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
> > > On 7/5/2023 5:53 PM, Carlos wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 04:43:56PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
> > > > > On 7/5/2023 3:18 PM, Carlos wrote:
> > > > > > \showmakeup on \TeX\ shows a
> > > > > >
> > > > > > tSP:3.282
> > > > > > THK:-1.721
> > > > > > H__E
> > > > > > X
> > > > > > HK:-1.291
> > > > > > SP:3.282
> > > > >
> > > > > no MWE includes so clueless
> > > >
> > > > \starttypescript[mylucidaserif]
> > > > \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightRegular] [file:LucidaBrightRegular]
> > > > \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightItalic] [file:LucidaBrightItalic]
> > > > \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightDemiBold] [file:LucidaBrightDemiBold]
> > > > \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightDemiItalic] [file:LucidaBrightDemiItalic]
> > > > \stoptypescript
> > > Hm, isn't that this lucida rip off again? Maybe bad metricks then but I'm
> > > not going to look into that as the official TUG lucida opentype fonts
> > > perform okay.
> > >
> > > Hans
> >
> > The first sentence is irrelevant. And a guess. Bad metrics is not the
> > culprit
> >
> > if it were true, the same problem would be under lualatex, correct?
>
> well, who knows what (me)tricks those fonts have embedded .. are these the
> official TUG lucida open type fonts? if so,
>
> \setupbodyfont[lucida]
>
> should just work (btw, you also don't set up math)
>
> > But it's not there.
> I can't (and won't) check that as I don't have (lua)latex installed nor have
> those fonts. I also don't see where this \qquad is in your example.
Using the same fonts under lualatex yields \TeX\ without an issue.
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\defaultfontfeatures{Ligatures=TeX}
\setmainfont[
ItalicFont=LucidaBrightItalic,
BoldFont=LucidaBrightDemiBold,
BoldItalicFont=LucidaBrightDemiItalic,
]{LucidaBrightRegular}
%
\setsansfont[
ItalicFont=LucidaSansOblique,
BoldFont=LucidaSansDemiBold,
BoldItalicFont=LucidaSansDemiOblique,
]{LucidaSansRegular}
%
\setmonofont[
% ItalicFont=LucidaTypewriterOblique,
BoldFont=LucidaTypewriterBold,
% BoldItalicFont=LucidaTypewriterBoldOblique,
]{LucidaTypewriterRegular}
\begin{document}
{\rm \input{knuth}}
\textsf{\input{knuth}}
\end{document}
>
> As for the \showmakup ... it is used extensively and afaiks there are no
> issues with it.
After running lualatex the problem dissappears. Or it seems like it.
>
> Hans
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
> Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
> tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : https://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
--
You will lose an important disk file.
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: \showmakeup adds unwanted space despite accurate readings; \qquad mandatory before \TeX\
2023-07-05 17:37 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context
@ 2023-07-06 13:38 ` Carlos
0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Carlos @ 2023-07-06 13:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 07:37:56PM +0200, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> On 7/5/2023 7:05 PM, Carlos wrote:
>
> > And I don't want to stir up anything here either, but if the convention of
> > using non-official vs official fonts is the new de facto under lmtx,
> > I guess my opening question is invalid by all acounts
> Well, the policy wrt font is quite simple:
>
> (1) one can define a typescript for any font, and one is free to mess around
> in these as much as possible
>
> (2) a proper font will normally work ok but of course there can be
> exceptions
>
> (3) if a font behaves bad one can ask on the list but then you need to give
> a mwe + output + indication where something is wrong
>
> (4) if you're lucky someone else has that font and can try, but keep in mind
> that one cannot assume someone to spend time (it is not everyones hobby to
> solve issues)
>
> (5) if nothing works out you need to provide an official (properly licenced
> copy, which in the case of a commercial font means that you have to buy an
> extra copy)
>
> (6) you have to keep in mind that you ask someone to spend time on something
> that is not worth spending time on (in the case of lucida: the ones from tug
> work fine, and we send quite some time on the math too, so we see no reason
> to spend more time on it ... there is only so much you can expect for free)
>
> (7) you cannot claim someones time and to what extend questions get answered
> also depends on the tone of the email, the way questions are formulates, etc
> etc
I agree with everything. Except (5).
Last time I checked Oracle, Corporation, one of the greediest money
hungry behemoth eavesdropping corporate shithole to ever set foot on
planet earth, owned or included the Lucida family on every java runtime
environment that there was. This piece of software was also
involuntarily required to run quite a few of programs.
Anyhow. Heck. Let's check the company's revenue:
Revenue Increase US$49.95 billion (2023)
Operating income Increase US$13.09 billion (2023)
Net income Increase US$8.503 billion (2023)
Total assets Increase US$134.4 billion (2023)
Total equity Increase US$1.556 billion (2023)
ouch. Billions, right?
So no. Let's stop the pretty lawyerish talk and rethoric and enough
with licenses too.
When you said ‹ripoff›, I'm not going to take it personally, and I
guess, and rightly so, you must have been referring to these
folks above rather than an end-user of lmtx like myself.
So no. The metrics are perfectly fine with the Lucida family from jre.
>
> that said ... if you think that you can deduce conventions from the fact
> that it is impossible or hard to answer a (somewhat vague) question, some
> introspection is needed ... i get the impressions that you have no clue what
> the de-facto conventions are under lmtx so i'd be careful in drawing
> conclusions
>
> also said: i do know the difference between input and font encoding and i do
> know what tfm and afm files contain and i also do know how to implement
> font/char handling (unless i have to guess what encoding, fonts, chars,
> engine an dmacro package a user is using in which case I don't - want to -
> know any of this) but when a user complain in certain ways i tend to not
> listen
>
> (let's see what chat gpt mnakes of that in the future)
>
> anyway, i don't have these fonts, i have working lucida setup as do other
> users, so i see no problem
>
> and, as your fonts work fine in lualatex, you have a way out of this
> persistent font issue,
>
> Hans
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
> Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
> tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : https://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
--
As long as there are ill-defined goals, bizarre bugs, and unrealistic
schedules, there will be Real Programmers willing to jump in and Solve
The Problem, saving the documentation for later.
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: \showmakeup adds unwanted space despite accurate readings; \qquad mandatory before \TeX\
2023-07-06 13:16 ` Carlos
@ 2023-07-06 16:57 ` Carlos
2023-07-07 11:09 ` Carlos
0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Carlos @ 2023-07-06 16:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On Thu, Jul 06, 2023 at 09:16:58AM -0400, Carlos wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 06:52:30PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
> > On 7/5/2023 6:38 PM, Carlos wrote:
> > > On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 06:12:32PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
> > > > On 7/5/2023 5:53 PM, Carlos wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 04:43:56PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
> > > > > > On 7/5/2023 3:18 PM, Carlos wrote:
> > > > > > > \showmakeup on \TeX\ shows a
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > tSP:3.282
> > > > > > > THK:-1.721
> > > > > > > H__E
> > > > > > > X
> > > > > > > HK:-1.291
> > > > > > > SP:3.282
> > > > > >
> > > > > > no MWE includes so clueless
> > > > >
> > > > > \starttypescript[mylucidaserif]
> > > > > \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightRegular] [file:LucidaBrightRegular]
> > > > > \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightItalic] [file:LucidaBrightItalic]
> > > > > \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightDemiBold] [file:LucidaBrightDemiBold]
> > > > > \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightDemiItalic] [file:LucidaBrightDemiItalic]
> > > > > \stoptypescript
> > > > Hm, isn't that this lucida rip off again? Maybe bad metricks then but I'm
> > > > not going to look into that as the official TUG lucida opentype fonts
> > > > perform okay.
> > > >
> > > > Hans
> > >
> > > The first sentence is irrelevant. And a guess. Bad metrics is not the
> > > culprit
> > >
> > > if it were true, the same problem would be under lualatex, correct?
> >
> > well, who knows what (me)tricks those fonts have embedded .. are these the
> > official TUG lucida open type fonts? if so,
> >
> > \setupbodyfont[lucida]
> >
> > should just work (btw, you also don't set up math)
> >
> > > But it's not there.
> > I can't (and won't) check that as I don't have (lua)latex installed nor have
> > those fonts. I also don't see where this \qquad is in your example.
>
>
> Using the same fonts under lualatex yields \TeX\ without an issue.
>
> \documentclass{article}
>
> \usepackage{unicode-math}
>
> \defaultfontfeatures{Ligatures=TeX}
>
> \setmainfont[
> ItalicFont=LucidaBrightItalic,
> BoldFont=LucidaBrightDemiBold,
> BoldItalicFont=LucidaBrightDemiItalic,
> ]{LucidaBrightRegular}
> %
> \setsansfont[
> ItalicFont=LucidaSansOblique,
> BoldFont=LucidaSansDemiBold,
> BoldItalicFont=LucidaSansDemiOblique,
> ]{LucidaSansRegular}
> %
> \setmonofont[
> % ItalicFont=LucidaTypewriterOblique,
> BoldFont=LucidaTypewriterBold,
> % BoldItalicFont=LucidaTypewriterBoldOblique,
> ]{LucidaTypewriterRegular}
>
> \begin{document}
>
> {\rm \input{knuth}}
>
> \textsf{\input{knuth}}
>
> \end{document}
>
> >
> > As for the \showmakup ... it is used extensively and afaiks there are no
> > issues with it.
>
> After running lualatex the problem dissappears. Or it seems like it.
>
I take it back. It doesn't disappear. It's still there. \showmakeup
yields the right readings but yet the kerning is off on \TeX\.
With \showmakeup everything ‹seems› correct. I guess the readings
output are correct, and also, amazingly, the horizontal kerning,
as you aptly named it, for \TeX\
Not under lualatex. Everytihng seems fine there.
But I perfectly understand that there would not be any support for these
fonts. Thanks though!
(trying to send this message with an attachment as before but it wouldn't
go through)
--
We are experiencing system trouble -- do not adjust your terminal.
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: \showmakeup adds unwanted space despite accurate readings; \qquad mandatory before \TeX\
2023-07-06 16:57 ` Carlos
@ 2023-07-07 11:09 ` Carlos
2023-07-07 11:57 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context
0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Carlos @ 2023-07-07 11:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On Thu, Jul 06, 2023 at 12:57:57PM -0400, Carlos wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 06, 2023 at 09:16:58AM -0400, Carlos wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 06:52:30PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
> > > On 7/5/2023 6:38 PM, Carlos wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 06:12:32PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
> > > > > On 7/5/2023 5:53 PM, Carlos wrote:
> > > > > > On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 04:43:56PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
> > > > > > > On 7/5/2023 3:18 PM, Carlos wrote:
> > > > > > > > \showmakeup on \TeX\ shows a
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > tSP:3.282
> > > > > > > > THK:-1.721
> > > > > > > > H__E
> > > > > > > > X
> > > > > > > > HK:-1.291
> > > > > > > > SP:3.282
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > no MWE includes so clueless
> > > > > >
> > > > > > \starttypescript[mylucidaserif]
> > > > > > \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightRegular] [file:LucidaBrightRegular]
> > > > > > \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightItalic] [file:LucidaBrightItalic]
> > > > > > \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightDemiBold] [file:LucidaBrightDemiBold]
> > > > > > \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightDemiItalic] [file:LucidaBrightDemiItalic]
> > > > > > \stoptypescript
> > > > > Hm, isn't that this lucida rip off again? Maybe bad metricks then but I'm
> > > > > not going to look into that as the official TUG lucida opentype fonts
> > > > > perform okay.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hans
> > > >
> > > > The first sentence is irrelevant. And a guess. Bad metrics is not the
> > > > culprit
> > > >
> > > > if it were true, the same problem would be under lualatex, correct?
> > >
> > > well, who knows what (me)tricks those fonts have embedded .. are these the
> > > official TUG lucida open type fonts? if so,
> > >
> > > \setupbodyfont[lucida]
> > >
> > > should just work (btw, you also don't set up math)
> > >
> > > > But it's not there.
> > > I can't (and won't) check that as I don't have (lua)latex installed nor have
> > > those fonts. I also don't see where this \qquad is in your example.
> >
> >
> > Using the same fonts under lualatex yields \TeX\ without an issue.
> >
> > \documentclass{article}
> >
> > \usepackage{unicode-math}
> >
> > \defaultfontfeatures{Ligatures=TeX}
> >
> > \setmainfont[
> > ItalicFont=LucidaBrightItalic,
> > BoldFont=LucidaBrightDemiBold,
> > BoldItalicFont=LucidaBrightDemiItalic,
> > ]{LucidaBrightRegular}
> > %
> > \setsansfont[
> > ItalicFont=LucidaSansOblique,
> > BoldFont=LucidaSansDemiBold,
> > BoldItalicFont=LucidaSansDemiOblique,
> > ]{LucidaSansRegular}
> > %
> > \setmonofont[
> > % ItalicFont=LucidaTypewriterOblique,
> > BoldFont=LucidaTypewriterBold,
> > % BoldItalicFont=LucidaTypewriterBoldOblique,
> > ]{LucidaTypewriterRegular}
> >
> > \begin{document}
> >
> > {\rm \input{knuth}}
> >
> > \textsf{\input{knuth}}
> >
> > \end{document}
> >
> > >
> > > As for the \showmakup ... it is used extensively and afaiks there are no
> > > issues with it.
> >
> > After running lualatex the problem dissappears. Or it seems like it.
> >
>
> I take it back. It doesn't disappear. It's still there. \showmakeup
> yields the right readings but yet the kerning is off on \TeX\.
>
> With \showmakeup everything ‹seems› correct. I guess the readings
> output are correct, and also, amazingly, the horizontal kerning,
> as you aptly named it, for \TeX\
>
> Not under lualatex. Everytihng seems fine there.
>
> But I perfectly understand that there would not be any support for these
> fonts. Thanks though!
>
> (trying to send this message with an attachment as before but it wouldn't
> go through)
In other words, and please, just ignore my message.
But it seems as if \showmakeup masks the problem. Dont' get me wrong, I
find \showmakeup output as one of the best indicators out there.
But if one were to say
{\rm \qquad{\!\!\!\!\!\!\!\!\!\!\!hurt \TeX\ significantly}}
the readings are quite probably as accurate as readings can ever be, but
at the same time, \TeX\ is displayed perfectly, which shouldn't have.
It really doesn't matter how many quad quad quad quad happened to be, or
how many negative spaces happened to be included, because it never gets
it quite right unless \showmakeup is used
This is quite interesting actually.
If, for example, with \showmakeup, one were to say within the same document
\hbox to 1cm{\ss \input{knuth}}
or rather, \vbox to 1cm{\ss \input{knuth}} or whatever
\showmakeup displays it astonishingly correctly indeed
anyhow
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: \showmakeup adds unwanted space despite accurate readings; \qquad mandatory before \TeX\
2023-07-07 11:09 ` Carlos
@ 2023-07-07 11:57 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context
0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen via ntg-context @ 2023-07-07 11:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Hans Hagen
On 7/7/2023 1:09 PM, Carlos wrote:
> \showmakeup displays it astonishingly correctly indeed
probably a side effect of the fact that injected stuff resynchronizes
the character progression in the pdf file (every char start with
explicit coordinates) while without showing it depends on the width
array so when that one is wrong (could be a side effect of some bad
metric in the font file like units, possibly reported in the log) you
can get wrong positioning
Hans
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2023-07-07 11:57 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 18+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2023-07-05 13:18 \showmakeup adds unwanted space despite accurate readings; \qquad mandatory before \TeX\ Carlos
2023-07-05 13:32 ` Carlos
2023-07-05 13:46 ` Carlos
2023-07-05 14:43 ` Hans Hagen
2023-07-05 15:53 ` Carlos
2023-07-05 16:07 ` Carlos
2023-07-05 16:12 ` Hans Hagen
2023-07-05 16:38 ` Carlos
2023-07-05 16:52 ` Hans Hagen
2023-07-06 13:16 ` Carlos
2023-07-06 16:57 ` Carlos
2023-07-07 11:09 ` Carlos
2023-07-07 11:57 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context
2023-07-05 17:05 ` Carlos
2023-07-05 17:37 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context
2023-07-06 13:38 ` Carlos
2023-07-05 16:15 ` Alan Braslau via ntg-context
2023-07-05 17:12 ` Carlos
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