Re: [9fans] Software philosophy

[hiro <23hiro@gmail.com>]

is that my cue, are you calling in my services?!

On 8/18/21, Skip Tavakkolian <skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com> wrote:
> I changed the Subject line to better reflect the discussion. Please do go
> on.
>
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 8:57 PM Lucio De Re <lucio.dere@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 8/17/21, Keith Gibbs <k@pixelheresy.com> wrote:
>> > One Plan Nine?
>> >
>> > Sure, we have the historical version of the Bell Labs/Lucient codebase,
>> > preserved as 9legacy, but yeah we have one currently developed branch
>> > of
>> > Plan 9 called 9front. Are you proposing that to be called “Plan 9 from
>> > Bell
>> > Labs 5th edition”?
>> >
>> I bet you think I don't; you wouldn't ask, otherwise.
>>
>> > To be serious though, when has monolithic code bases ever benefited
>> > things
>> > in an Open Source community?
>>
>> You bought the "exceptionalism" Kool-Aid, lock, stock and barrel,
>> haven't you? It's a question of size: a small code base should remain
>> small, then it is not weaponisable or monetisable. So we raise the bar
>> higher and higher and shake off whatever can't stick hard enough. A
>> human natural instinct (more!, gimme more! features! bugs! anything so
>> I can have bigger, faster!) bent to the interest of elites (here in
>> Africa we know it as the Big Man Syndrome).
>>
>> > I mean the only reason would be to control who
>> > can/cannot make decisions on what goes in the stone soup.
>> Do you have incontrovertible evidence? In my caffeine-deprived state,
>> I feel you're just following the sheep gospel, no offence intended. In
>> my opinion, the trap is always there, ready to be deployed. And the
>> masses are always ready to fall into it. Occasionally a Christ figure
>> comes along to warn us, but only the elite can understand the message
>> and of course they then distort it in the direction that suits them
>> best. And the masses are none the wiser, not this time, not the next
>> time, not any other time, because the elite can be swapped out
>> entirely and the new elite becomes them, ad nauseam.
>>
>> > There are multiple
>> > BSDs. There are multiple Linuxes. Using 9legacy as more than historical
>> > baseline means that we will be stuck with decisions put in place 20-30
>> > years
>> > ago rather than iterating and moving things forward. The purpose of P9F
>> > is
>> > to “promote and support” not to regulate.
>> >
>> Sure, and an infinite variety of vehicles with wheels at the four
>> corners and seats that just occupy space and consume carbon-based
>> fuels. Even EVs where each wheel could be both motor and power
>> generator have retained that ridiculous formula. But they look
>> different (sort of, there's greater difference in time than there in
>> style). Oh, let's not ignore that autos also sit idle (my estimate)
>> 95% of their life: is that what they are designed for? And the AI in
>> my phone, is that also sitting idle? I had a couple of instances
>> recently where in the middle of the night my password locked Samsung
>> J5 decided to continue reading me the SF short story collection I
>> turned off before going to sleep.
>>
>> But Android is Open Source, isn't it? I can look under the bonned, can't
>> I?
>>
>> Well, the P9F is what it is. It will also become what it is naturally
>> attracted to unless some boundaries - Trump's fence? - are put in
>> place.
>>
>> > I would love to imagine a time when we have a resurgence of multiple
>> > Plan
>> > 9s. I would love to see Akaros and 9atom have a shot in the arm
>> > [although
>> > much of what the latter had seems to be swallowed up by 9front and
>> > 9legacy
>> > and the project dead]. I would love to see NIX get a little more
>> > traction,
>> > as it seems it is just a standalone experiment [albeit a cool one in
>> > terms
>> > of goals]. I think it would be really healthy for Jeanne and Harvey to
>> > be
>> > more closer to “family” in the community rather than third cousins. Once
>> > we
>> > have a plurality of opinions, of perspectives, of visions, then we can
>> > better broker standards and overall trajectories.
>> >
>> I'm going to leave this here, with a comment to the effect that I
>> totally disagree with the sentiments. There is room, need is not a
>> strong enough word for what I'm thinking, for creativity, but software
>> is not a primordial soup out of which complex organisms will rise to
>> take over the Universe and consume it out of existence, its and
>> theirs.
>>
>> More likely, we'll teach - by example, not intentionally, no - our AI
>> products to weaponise the tools we are no longer sufficiently
>> naturally intelligent to understand and control (tell me there's a
>> difference) and turn us into slaves because, like the human elite,
>> they will measure their worth in what they can accumulate (human
>> slaves sounds like a neat currency to me, I could use some, it's
>> worked in all of human history - ask Epstein), just like their
>> creators did.
>>
>> Nothing to do with Plan 9, of course, because it really is just a drop
>> of accidental sanity in an ocean of greed and competition. But, to
>> complete the imagery, I'd rather be plankton in a drop of Plan 9 than
>> a shark in the Linux Ocean. And I am, to the extent that I support and
>> most of all appreciate what makes my ecosystem continue to tick.
>> Including any contributions by like-minded or antagonistically natured
>> geniuses.
>>
>> Lucio.
>>
>> PS: I have a lot of time to think and unfortunately not the means to
>> study beyond a rather narrow subject matter. So my opinions are much
>> more the result of introspection than of universal knowledge. Take it
>> for what it is.
>>
>> PPS: There is always an elite, its job is to defeat by all means
>> available a middle class whose "elite nouveau" continually attempts to
>> replace it, by any means available to it. Everything revolves around
>> who owns the masses. That's Western Civilisation in a nutshell.

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