Re: [9fans] Software philosophy

[Keith Gibbs <k@pixelheresy.com>]

Sorry for posting the other to the original title. Was authoring it prior to your subject change and sent it after. 

Will happily reply to this thread if it continues. 

But in the meantime, you can lock me in the stocks and throw fruit ;). 

-pixelheresy 

> On 18 Aug 2021, at 10:04, Skip Tavakkolian <skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I changed the Subject line to better reflect the discussion. Please do go on.
> 
>> On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 8:57 PM Lucio De Re <lucio.dere@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 8/17/21, Keith Gibbs <k@pixelheresy.com> wrote:
>>> One Plan Nine?
>>> 
>>> Sure, we have the historical version of the Bell Labs/Lucient codebase,
>>> preserved as 9legacy, but yeah we have one currently developed branch of
>>> Plan 9 called 9front. Are you proposing that to be called “Plan 9 from Bell
>>> Labs 5th edition”?
>>> 
>> I bet you think I don't; you wouldn't ask, otherwise.
>> 
>>> To be serious though, when has monolithic code bases ever benefited things
>>> in an Open Source community?
>> 
>> You bought the "exceptionalism" Kool-Aid, lock, stock and barrel,
>> haven't you? It's a question of size: a small code base should remain
>> small, then it is not weaponisable or monetisable. So we raise the bar
>> higher and higher and shake off whatever can't stick hard enough. A
>> human natural instinct (more!, gimme more! features! bugs! anything so
>> I can have bigger, faster!) bent to the interest of elites (here in
>> Africa we know it as the Big Man Syndrome).
>> 
>>> I mean the only reason would be to control who
>>> can/cannot make decisions on what goes in the stone soup.
>> Do you have incontrovertible evidence? In my caffeine-deprived state,
>> I feel you're just following the sheep gospel, no offence intended. In
>> my opinion, the trap is always there, ready to be deployed. And the
>> masses are always ready to fall into it. Occasionally a Christ figure
>> comes along to warn us, but only the elite can understand the message
>> and of course they then distort it in the direction that suits them
>> best. And the masses are none the wiser, not this time, not the next
>> time, not any other time, because the elite can be swapped out
>> entirely and the new elite becomes them, ad nauseam.
>> 
>>> There are multiple
>>> BSDs. There are multiple Linuxes. Using 9legacy as more than historical
>>> baseline means that we will be stuck with decisions put in place 20-30 years
>>> ago rather than iterating and moving things forward. The purpose of P9F is
>>> to “promote and support” not to regulate.
>>> 
>> Sure, and an infinite variety of vehicles with wheels at the four
>> corners and seats that just occupy space and consume carbon-based
>> fuels. Even EVs where each wheel could be both motor and power
>> generator have retained that ridiculous formula. But they look
>> different (sort of, there's greater difference in time than there in
>> style). Oh, let's not ignore that autos also sit idle (my estimate)
>> 95% of their life: is that what they are designed for? And the AI in
>> my phone, is that also sitting idle? I had a couple of instances
>> recently where in the middle of the night my password locked Samsung
>> J5 decided to continue reading me the SF short story collection I
>> turned off before going to sleep.
>> 
>> But Android is Open Source, isn't it? I can look under the bonned, can't I?
>> 
>> Well, the P9F is what it is. It will also become what it is naturally
>> attracted to unless some boundaries - Trump's fence? - are put in
>> place.
>> 
>>> I would love to imagine a time when we have a resurgence of multiple Plan
>>> 9s. I would love to see Akaros and 9atom have a shot in the arm [although
>>> much of what the latter had seems to be swallowed up by 9front and 9legacy
>>> and the project dead]. I would love to see NIX get a little more traction,
>>> as it seems it is just a standalone experiment [albeit a cool one in terms
>>> of goals]. I think it would be really healthy for Jeanne and Harvey to be
>>> more closer to “family” in the community rather than third cousins. Once we
>>> have a plurality of opinions, of perspectives, of visions, then we can
>>> better broker standards and overall trajectories.
>>> 
>> I'm going to leave this here, with a comment to the effect that I
>> totally disagree with the sentiments. There is room, need is not a
>> strong enough word for what I'm thinking, for creativity, but software
>> is not a primordial soup out of which complex organisms will rise to
>> take over the Universe and consume it out of existence, its and
>> theirs.
>> 
>> More likely, we'll teach - by example, not intentionally, no - our AI
>> products to weaponise the tools we are no longer sufficiently
>> naturally intelligent to understand and control (tell me there's a
>> difference) and turn us into slaves because, like the human elite,
>> they will measure their worth in what they can accumulate (human
>> slaves sounds like a neat currency to me, I could use some, it's
>> worked in all of human history - ask Epstein), just like their
>> creators did.
>> 
>> Nothing to do with Plan 9, of course, because it really is just a drop
>> of accidental sanity in an ocean of greed and competition. But, to
>> complete the imagery, I'd rather be plankton in a drop of Plan 9 than
>> a shark in the Linux Ocean. And I am, to the extent that I support and
>> most of all appreciate what makes my ecosystem continue to tick.
>> Including any contributions by like-minded or antagonistically natured
>> geniuses.
>> 
>> Lucio.
>> 
>> PS: I have a lot of time to think and unfortunately not the means to
>> study beyond a rather narrow subject matter. So my opinions are much
>> more the result of introspection than of universal knowledge. Take it
>> for what it is.
>> 
>> PPS: There is always an elite, its job is to defeat by all means
>> available a middle class whose "elite nouveau" continually attempts to
>> replace it, by any means available to it. Everything revolves around
>> who owns the masses. That's Western Civilisation in a nutshell.

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T9ef6430f3025e731-M4a968597111c3e59460aab42
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription