Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

[vic.thacker@fastmail.fm]

The approach is effective in open source projects when there are leaders who excel in communication, provide a clear vision, and prioritize objectives. Its effectiveness diminishes in the absence of strong communication and planning. Clear expectations generally facilitate easier collaboration and sustained engagement. However, I am not referring to the 2% of individuals who engage only if it aligns with their own ideas. Prima donnas will act independently regardless, but for the majority who seek a constructive environment, like myself, establishing a structured system or model is beneficial.

Competence levels vary within the community, and any system necessitates knowledge transfer. This can be achieved through mentorship or onboarding sponsorship programs. The onboarding process involves several stages:
1. Not knowing what you don't know, where clear direction is essential.
2. Knowing that you don't know, where coaching is necessary.
3. Knowing and performing tasks with conscious effort, where occasional correction may be required.
4. Performing tasks instinctively, where little to no correction is needed.

There seems to be an implicit expectation that contributors should be at stage four, but many in the 9fans community may not yet be at this level. While I'm not an expert, my initial experiences with Plan 9 were enriched by several mentors who were willing to guide me and others; but in today's environment that might be a big ask, so you might be right.

Vic


On Mon, May 13, 2024, at 10:32, ori@eigenstate.org wrote:
> I don't think this approach has ever worked in
> the open source world -- it always starts with
> someone building something useful. The vision
> and goal is defined by the work being done.
>
> After something useful is built, people start
> to join in and contribute.
>
> After enough people join in, it makes sense to
> have more organization.
>
> Quoth vester.thacker@fastmail.fm:
>> The complexity of communication in this medium often necessitates detailed discussions.  You highlighted the need for additional personnel to manage the workload (e.g. do the work).  From my perspective, this requires a well-defined vision, clear objectives, and a prioritized list of deliverables to align efforts effectively.  Currently, it seems the role of product managers is collectively held, though it's unclear who exactly is responsible.  Typically, a team of two or more individuals would focus on these deliverables.  In past projects, I've seen the use of a project board to keep everyone updated on tasks—an approach known as "information radiator" in project management.  I'm open to other methods if you had something different in mind that I may have overlooked.  If you are considering a meritocracy, I would recommend caution.  Experience has shown that what we truly need is increased collaboration and unity, rather than a system that could potentially encourage competition and division.  I apologize if my message is obtuse, I am trying to keep this message concise, I can expound more for clarity.  I hope my explanation helps. 
>> 
>> Vic
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, May 13, 2024, at 03:36, ori@eigenstate.org wrote:
>> > that's not what I said.
>> >
>> > Quoth vic.thacker@fastmail.fm:
>> >> I agree that having a clear vision and charter is essential before forming a team. Regarding building an inclusive Plan 9 community that encompasses multiple groups, it's important to establish common goals and values that resonate with all members. What are your thoughts on creating open channels for dialogue and collaboration? How can we ensure that everyone feels valued and heard? This approach could foster a more cooperative and inclusive environment.
>> >> 
>> >> Vic
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> On Sun, May 12, 2024, at 16:19, plan6@room3420.net wrote:
>> >> > "tl;dr: you need people doing the work before you can try
>> >> > to organize them; the way to get people doing the work is
>> >> >  to bootstrap it by doing work and showing value." [from Ori].
>> >> >  or
>> >> >  "Don't be the kid who can't play [whatever]ball but wants to teach
>> >> > everybody and be the team coach, just because he read a book."

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