[9front] pi4 wifi and audio

[9front] pi4 wifi and audio

[thinktankworkspaces]

So 9front on pi4 seems pretty stable. But has anyone got audio and wifi working. I recall 
reading some place that pi hardware developers kind of deviated from convention so its a bit
tricky to get some of that stuff working. Perhaps I might also be asking for some sort of 
guide to read on how to build or deal with making drivers in 9front and some troubleshooting
steps to follow. Ponies and Unicorns I want those also, so yea.

Re: [9front] pi4 wifi and audio

[hiro]

yes, miller's version has wifi. i don't remember if anybody did the
work to bring it to 9front, but in any case they didn't finish it ( ==
mainline it).

audio, some people wasted their time with the incomplete audio
solution in the rpi, it but then gave up IIRC.
some people like to add a DAC to the I2C bus, but i consider that also
a waste of time, esp. as long as you can get 1$ USB->audio converters
including shipping from china, the quality is 100% matching the rpi
hardware, and a lot better than most DIY rpi audio add-ons.

as much as i hate USB, for soundcards that's good enough and we
already support it.

On 2/12/22, thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com <thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com> wrote:
> So 9front on pi4 seems pretty stable. But has anyone got audio and wifi
> working. I recall
> reading some place that pi hardware developers kind of deviated from
> convention so its a bit
> tricky to get some of that stuff working. Perhaps I might also be asking for
> some sort of
> guide to read on how to build or deal with making drivers in 9front and some
> troubleshooting
> steps to follow. Ponies and Unicorns I want those also, so yea.
>

Re: [9front] pi4 wifi and audio

[Steve Simon]

i assume you mean adding a DAC to I2S, I2C doesn’t have the bandwidth for quality audio even at 400khz.

using and external dac over I2S can make a very significant (very measurable) difference to the quality of the audio you can extract from a rpi.

the most important part of this is locking the pi’s i2s stream to external crystals, and having quiet power supplies for the dac and any downstream gain stages.

i am afraid $1 chinese usb dacs are a poor second choice.

-Steve


> On 12 Feb 2022, at 6:16 pm, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> yes, miller's version has wifi. i don't remember if anybody did the
> work to bring it to 9front, but in any case they didn't finish it ( ==
> mainline it).
> 
> audio, some people wasted their time with the incomplete audio
> solution in the rpi, it but then gave up IIRC.
> some people like to add a DAC to the I2C bus, but i consider that also
> a waste of time, esp. as long as you can get 1$ USB->audio converters
> including shipping from china, the quality is 100% matching the rpi
> hardware, and a lot better than most DIY rpi audio add-ons.
> 
> as much as i hate USB, for soundcards that's good enough and we
> already support it.
> 
>> On 2/12/22, thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com <thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com> wrote:
>> So 9front on pi4 seems pretty stable. But has anyone got audio and wifi
>> working. I recall
>> reading some place that pi hardware developers kind of deviated from
>> convention so its a bit
>> tricky to get some of that stuff working. Perhaps I might also be asking for
>> some sort of
>> guide to read on how to build or deal with making drivers in 9front and some
>> troubleshooting
>> steps to follow. Ponies and Unicorns I want those also, so yea.
>> 

Re: [9front] pi4 wifi and audio

[Thaddeus Woskowiak]

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I don't think Miller's wifi does WPA or any auth. Though I've not ran
Miller's pi image in a long time. Miller's wifi driver is also different
from 9 front's WiFi driver so it's not a simple port.

For good pi audio I use a Dayton USB DAC which outputs pretty clean audio.

Unfortunately the pi uses a really crummy SoC as it started life as an
EoL'd chip for set-top boxes. That's why it does weird crap like boot from
the GPU and lacked proper Ethernet for ages. Even Pi founder Ebbon Upton
was unable to grasp why people wanted proper Ethernet as the pi was only
ever meant for teaching. It's an educational toy built from a chip
scrounged from the cut out bin but everyone seems to want to ignore that
part. You get what you pay for.

I tend to prefer cheap embedded PC's off eBay or itx Celeron SoC boards if
I need a small low power system.

On Sat, Feb 12, 2022, 1:11 PM <thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com> wrote:

> So 9front on pi4 seems pretty stable. But has anyone got audio and wifi
> working. I recall
> reading some place that pi hardware developers kind of deviated from
> convention so its a bit
> tricky to get some of that stuff working. Perhaps I might also be asking
> for some sort of
> guide to read on how to build or deal with making drivers in 9front and
> some troubleshooting
> steps to follow. Ponies and Unicorns I want those also, so yea.
>

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Re: [9front] pi4 wifi and audio

[thinktankworkspaces]

Quoth Thaddeus Woskowiak <tswoskowiak@gmail.com>:
> I don't think Miller's wifi does WPA or any auth. Though I've not ran
> Miller's pi image in a long time. Miller's wifi driver is also different
> from 9 front's WiFi driver so it's not a simple port.
> 
> For good pi audio I use a Dayton USB DAC which outputs pretty clean audio.
> 
> Unfortunately the pi uses a really crummy SoC as it started life as an
> EoL'd chip for set-top boxes. That's why it does weird crap like boot from
> the GPU and lacked proper Ethernet for ages. Even Pi founder Ebbon Upton
> was unable to grasp why people wanted proper Ethernet as the pi was only
> ever meant for teaching. It's an educational toy built from a chip
> scrounged from the cut out bin but everyone seems to want to ignore that
> part. You get what you pay for.
> 
> I tend to prefer cheap embedded PC's off eBay or itx Celeron SoC boards if
> I need a small low power system.
> 
> On Sat, Feb 12, 2022, 1:11 PM <thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > So 9front on pi4 seems pretty stable. But has anyone got audio and wifi
> > working. I recall
> > reading some place that pi hardware developers kind of deviated from
> > convention so its a bit
> > tricky to get some of that stuff working. Perhaps I might also be asking
> > for some sort of
> > guide to read on how to build or deal with making drivers in 9front and
> > some troubleshooting
> > steps to follow. Ponies and Unicorns I want those also, so yea.
> >
> 

Interesting. Seems like a lot of wasted effort. Unless as you say using pi as a teaching
experiement. So what about hackboard2. Kind of the same specs but Intel. I'm wondering if
it will just boot 9front and work without too much fuss. 

Re: [9front] pi4 wifi and audio

[hiro]

well, pi4 on 9front can be used as an efficient terminal. just avoid
the wifi, usb-c, audio, bluetooth :D
as a music player it's also good enough, with a high quality usb soundcard.
rpi4 finally has real 1gbit ethernet. makes it the first viable pi.
of course use cases are extremely limited, but they exist.

On 2/12/22, thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com <thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com> wrote:
> Quoth Thaddeus Woskowiak <tswoskowiak@gmail.com>:
>> I don't think Miller's wifi does WPA or any auth. Though I've not ran
>> Miller's pi image in a long time. Miller's wifi driver is also different
>> from 9 front's WiFi driver so it's not a simple port.
>>
>> For good pi audio I use a Dayton USB DAC which outputs pretty clean
>> audio.
>>
>> Unfortunately the pi uses a really crummy SoC as it started life as an
>> EoL'd chip for set-top boxes. That's why it does weird crap like boot
>> from
>> the GPU and lacked proper Ethernet for ages. Even Pi founder Ebbon Upton
>> was unable to grasp why people wanted proper Ethernet as the pi was only
>> ever meant for teaching. It's an educational toy built from a chip
>> scrounged from the cut out bin but everyone seems to want to ignore that
>> part. You get what you pay for.
>>
>> I tend to prefer cheap embedded PC's off eBay or itx Celeron SoC boards
>> if
>> I need a small low power system.
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 12, 2022, 1:11 PM <thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > So 9front on pi4 seems pretty stable. But has anyone got audio and wifi
>> > working. I recall
>> > reading some place that pi hardware developers kind of deviated from
>> > convention so its a bit
>> > tricky to get some of that stuff working. Perhaps I might also be
>> > asking
>> > for some sort of
>> > guide to read on how to build or deal with making drivers in 9front and
>> > some troubleshooting
>> > steps to follow. Ponies and Unicorns I want those also, so yea.
>> >
>>
>
> Interesting. Seems like a lot of wasted effort. Unless as you say using pi
> as a teaching
> experiement. So what about hackboard2. Kind of the same specs but Intel. I'm
> wondering if
> it will just boot 9front and work without too much fuss.
>

Re: [9front] pi4 wifi and audio

[thinktankworkspaces]

Yes it seems really stable as a terminal. It only crashed once while running netsurf 
using js mode. To be expected i'm sure. I make the habit of running additional rio when using
netsurf to keep from rebooting. But honestly I don't know what to do with it. I have no need
for GPIO at the moment. I have an extra kbd, mouse, and monitor. So I guess if I ever need a 
low cost terminal then I have one to use. 

Quoth hiro <23hiro@gmail.com>:
> well, pi4 on 9front can be used as an efficient terminal. just avoid
> the wifi, usb-c, audio, bluetooth :D
> as a music player it's also good enough, with a high quality usb soundcard.
> rpi4 finally has real 1gbit ethernet. makes it the first viable pi.
> of course use cases are extremely limited, but they exist.
> 
> On 2/12/22, thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com <thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Quoth Thaddeus Woskowiak <tswoskowiak@gmail.com>:
> >> I don't think Miller's wifi does WPA or any auth. Though I've not ran
> >> Miller's pi image in a long time. Miller's wifi driver is also different
> >> from 9 front's WiFi driver so it's not a simple port.
> >>
> >> For good pi audio I use a Dayton USB DAC which outputs pretty clean
> >> audio.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately the pi uses a really crummy SoC as it started life as an
> >> EoL'd chip for set-top boxes. That's why it does weird crap like boot
> >> from
> >> the GPU and lacked proper Ethernet for ages. Even Pi founder Ebbon Upton
> >> was unable to grasp why people wanted proper Ethernet as the pi was only
> >> ever meant for teaching. It's an educational toy built from a chip
> >> scrounged from the cut out bin but everyone seems to want to ignore that
> >> part. You get what you pay for.
> >>
> >> I tend to prefer cheap embedded PC's off eBay or itx Celeron SoC boards
> >> if
> >> I need a small low power system.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Feb 12, 2022, 1:11 PM <thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > So 9front on pi4 seems pretty stable. But has anyone got audio and wifi
> >> > working. I recall
> >> > reading some place that pi hardware developers kind of deviated from
> >> > convention so its a bit
> >> > tricky to get some of that stuff working. Perhaps I might also be
> >> > asking
> >> > for some sort of
> >> > guide to read on how to build or deal with making drivers in 9front and
> >> > some troubleshooting
> >> > steps to follow. Ponies and Unicorns I want those also, so yea.
> >> >
> >>
> >
> > Interesting. Seems like a lot of wasted effort. Unless as you say using pi
> > as a teaching
> > experiement. So what about hackboard2. Kind of the same specs but Intel. I'm
> > wondering if
> > it will just boot 9front and work without too much fuss.
> >

Re: [9front] pi4 wifi and audio

[Thaddeus Woskowiak]

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I'd hate to discourage people from putting in effort but just explaining
the reality.

On Sat, Feb 12, 2022, 8:17 PM <thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com> wrote:

> Quoth Thaddeus Woskowiak <tswoskowiak@gmail.com>:
> > I don't think Miller's wifi does WPA or any auth. Though I've not ran
> > Miller's pi image in a long time. Miller's wifi driver is also different
> > from 9 front's WiFi driver so it's not a simple port.
> >
> > For good pi audio I use a Dayton USB DAC which outputs pretty clean
> audio.
> >
> > Unfortunately the pi uses a really crummy SoC as it started life as an
> > EoL'd chip for set-top boxes. That's why it does weird crap like boot
> from
> > the GPU and lacked proper Ethernet for ages. Even Pi founder Ebbon Upton
> > was unable to grasp why people wanted proper Ethernet as the pi was only
> > ever meant for teaching. It's an educational toy built from a chip
> > scrounged from the cut out bin but everyone seems to want to ignore that
> > part. You get what you pay for.
> >
> > I tend to prefer cheap embedded PC's off eBay or itx Celeron SoC boards
> if
> > I need a small low power system.
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 12, 2022, 1:11 PM <thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > So 9front on pi4 seems pretty stable. But has anyone got audio and wifi
> > > working. I recall
> > > reading some place that pi hardware developers kind of deviated from
> > > convention so its a bit
> > > tricky to get some of that stuff working. Perhaps I might also be
> asking
> > > for some sort of
> > > guide to read on how to build or deal with making drivers in 9front and
> > > some troubleshooting
> > > steps to follow. Ponies and Unicorns I want those also, so yea.
> > >
> >
>
> Interesting. Seems like a lot of wasted effort. Unless as you say using pi
> as a teaching
> experiement. So what about hackboard2. Kind of the same specs but Intel.
> I'm wondering if
> it will just boot 9front and work without too much fuss.
>

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Re: [9front] pi4 wifi and audio

[Steve Simon]

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richard miller’s image runs wpa fine - the wpa code is cinap’s ported from 9front.

having said this i found a significant latency on wifi on the pi compared to wired ether. it was enough to make 9p feel a bit clunky when used to a file server; so i still use wires. i feel bad i never got to the bottom of the delays.

-Steve


> On 13 Feb 2022, at 3:41 am, Thaddeus Woskowiak <tswoskowiak@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> I'd hate to discourage people from putting in effort but just explaining the reality. 
> 
>> On Sat, Feb 12, 2022, 8:17 PM <thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Quoth Thaddeus Woskowiak <tswoskowiak@gmail.com>:
>> > I don't think Miller's wifi does WPA or any auth. Though I've not ran
>> > Miller's pi image in a long time. Miller's wifi driver is also different
>> > from 9 front's WiFi driver so it's not a simple port.
>> > 
>> > For good pi audio I use a Dayton USB DAC which outputs pretty clean audio.
>> > 
>> > Unfortunately the pi uses a really crummy SoC as it started life as an
>> > EoL'd chip for set-top boxes. That's why it does weird crap like boot from
>> > the GPU and lacked proper Ethernet for ages. Even Pi founder Ebbon Upton
>> > was unable to grasp why people wanted proper Ethernet as the pi was only
>> > ever meant for teaching. It's an educational toy built from a chip
>> > scrounged from the cut out bin but everyone seems to want to ignore that
>> > part. You get what you pay for.
>> > 
>> > I tend to prefer cheap embedded PC's off eBay or itx Celeron SoC boards if
>> > I need a small low power system.
>> > 
>> > On Sat, Feb 12, 2022, 1:11 PM <thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > 
>> > > So 9front on pi4 seems pretty stable. But has anyone got audio and wifi
>> > > working. I recall
>> > > reading some place that pi hardware developers kind of deviated from
>> > > convention so its a bit
>> > > tricky to get some of that stuff working. Perhaps I might also be asking
>> > > for some sort of
>> > > guide to read on how to build or deal with making drivers in 9front and
>> > > some troubleshooting
>> > > steps to follow. Ponies and Unicorns I want those also, so yea.
>> > >
>> > 
>> 
>> Interesting. Seems like a lot of wasted effort. Unless as you say using pi as a teaching
>> experiement. So what about hackboard2. Kind of the same specs but Intel. I'm wondering if
>> it will just boot 9front and work without too much fuss. 

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