[TUHS] 70th anniversary of (official) programming errors

[TUHS] 70th anniversary of (official) programming errors

[Steffen Nurpmeso]

Not Unix in particular.
At least in Germany it is already the 16th, and my BSD calendar
notifies that "first programming error is encountered at the
U. S. Census Bureau".

As not being hard-to-the-core i may have missed it, but also in
1951, in March, the wonderful Grace Hopper "conceives the first
compiler, called A-O and later released as Math-Matic.  Hopper is
also credited with coining the term 'bug' following an incident
involving a moth and a Mark II.

All (hm!) according to COMPUTERWORLD January 18th, 1999 (i was
young!), with assistance of the Computer Museum of Boston.

Like McCartney said in the legendary 1999 concert at the Cavern
club, the first after his wonderful wife Linda died, "See, with
this band, if we don't get it right ... we start again!".

Thank you.

--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer,                The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter           he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter  wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)

Re: [TUHS] 70th anniversary of (official) programming errors

[John Cowan]

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On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 6:25 PM Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen@sdaoden.eu> wrote:


> As not being hard-to-the-core i may have missed it, but also in
> 1951, in March, the wonderful Grace Hopper "conceives the first
> compiler, called A-O and later released as Math-Matic.  Hopper is
> also credited with coining the term 'bug' following an incident
> involving a moth and a Mark II.
>

Yes, but wrongly.  The label next to the moth is "First actual case of bug
being found", and the word "actual" shows that the slang term already
existed then.  Brief unexplained faults on telephony (and before that
telegraphy) lines were "bugs on the line" back in the 19C.  Vibroplex
telegraph keys, first sold in 1905, had a picture of a beetle on the top of
the key, and were notorious for creating bugs when inexperienced operators
used them.  (Vibroplex is still in business, still selling its
continuous-operation telegraph keys, which ditt as long as you hold the
paddle to the right.)



John Cowan          http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan        cowan@ccil.org
BALIN FUNDINUL          UZBAD KHAZADDUMU
BALIN SON OF FUNDIN     LORD OF KHAZAD-DUM

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Re: [TUHS] 70th anniversary of (official) programming errors

[Dan Cross]

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On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 6:55 PM John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 6:25 PM Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen@sdaoden.eu>
> wrote:
>
>> As not being hard-to-the-core i may have missed it, but also in
>> 1951, in March, the wonderful Grace Hopper "conceives the first
>> compiler, called A-O and later released as Math-Matic.  Hopper is
>> also credited with coining the term 'bug' following an incident
>> involving a moth and a Mark II.
>>
>
> Yes, but wrongly.  The label next to the moth is "First actual case of bug
> being found", and the word "actual" shows that the slang term already
> existed then.  Brief unexplained faults on telephony (and before that
> telegraphy) lines were "bugs on the line" back in the 19C.  Vibroplex
> telegraph keys, first sold in 1905, had a picture of a beetle on the top of
> the key, and were notorious for creating bugs when inexperienced operators
> used them.  (Vibroplex is still in business, still selling its
> continuous-operation telegraph keys, which ditt as long as you hold the
> paddle to the right.)
>

Indeed, the Vibroplex key is called a "bug". I suspect this has something
to do with its appearance more than anything else, though (it kinda sorta
looks like, er, a bug).

        - Dan C.

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Re: [TUHS] 70th anniversary of (official) programming errors

[Rob Pike]

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There are citations from Edison in the 19th century using the word, and a
quote somewhere by Maurice Wilkes about the stairwell moment when he
realized much of the rest of his life would be spent finding programming
errors.

That moth was not the first bug, nor the first "bug", it was the first
recorded "actual bug".

-rob


On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 9:46 AM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 6:55 PM John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 6:25 PM Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen@sdaoden.eu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> As not being hard-to-the-core i may have missed it, but also in
>>> 1951, in March, the wonderful Grace Hopper "conceives the first
>>> compiler, called A-O and later released as Math-Matic.  Hopper is
>>> also credited with coining the term 'bug' following an incident
>>> involving a moth and a Mark II.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, but wrongly.  The label next to the moth is "First actual case of
>> bug being found", and the word "actual" shows that the slang term already
>> existed then.  Brief unexplained faults on telephony (and before that
>> telegraphy) lines were "bugs on the line" back in the 19C.  Vibroplex
>> telegraph keys, first sold in 1905, had a picture of a beetle on the top of
>> the key, and were notorious for creating bugs when inexperienced operators
>> used them.  (Vibroplex is still in business, still selling its
>> continuous-operation telegraph keys, which ditt as long as you hold the
>> paddle to the right.)
>>
>
> Indeed, the Vibroplex key is called a "bug". I suspect this has something
> to do with its appearance more than anything else, though (it kinda sorta
> looks like, er, a bug).
>
>         - Dan C.
>
>

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Re: [TUHS] 70th anniversary of (official) programming errors

[Bakul Shah]

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https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-institute/ieee-history/did-you-know-edison-coined-the-term-bug

Like Edison, she (Grace Hopper) was recalling the word’s older origins in the Welsh bwg, the Scottish bogill or bogle, the German bögge, and the Middle English bugge: the hobgoblins of pre-modern life, resurrected in the 19th century as, to paraphrase philosopher Gilbert Ryle, ghosts in the machine.

Electrical circuits can have "bad connections" so I do wonder if Edison coined this word based on "ghost like" faults that magically appear and disappear!

-- Bakul

> On Jun 15, 2021, at 8:48 PM, Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> There are citations from Edison in the 19th century using the word, and a quote somewhere by Maurice Wilkes about the stairwell moment when he realized much of the rest of his life would be spent finding programming errors.
> 
> That moth was not the first bug, nor the first "bug", it was the first recorded "actual bug".
> 
> -rob
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 9:46 AM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com <mailto:crossd@gmail.com>> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 6:55 PM John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org <mailto:cowan@ccil.org>> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 6:25 PM Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen@sdaoden.eu <mailto:steffen@sdaoden.eu>> wrote:
> As not being hard-to-the-core i may have missed it, but also in
> 1951, in March, the wonderful Grace Hopper "conceives the first
> compiler, called A-O and later released as Math-Matic.  Hopper is
> also credited with coining the term 'bug' following an incident
> involving a moth and a Mark II.
> 
> Yes, but wrongly.  The label next to the moth is "First actual case of bug being found", and the word "actual" shows that the slang term already existed then.  Brief unexplained faults on telephony (and before that telegraphy) lines were "bugs on the line" back in the 19C.  Vibroplex telegraph keys, first sold in 1905, had a picture of a beetle on the top of the key, and were notorious for creating bugs when inexperienced operators used them.  (Vibroplex is still in business, still selling its continuous-operation telegraph keys, which ditt as long as you hold the paddle to the right.)
> 
> Indeed, the Vibroplex key is called a "bug". I suspect this has something to do with its appearance more than anything else, though (it kinda sorta looks like, er, a bug).
> 
>         - Dan C.
> 


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Re: [TUHS] 70th anniversary of (official) programming errors

[Steffen Nurpmeso]

Bakul Shah wrote in
 <C964FEBE-BBE3-4A87-9F2F-E5C277053D85@iitbombay.org>:
 |> On Jun 15, 2021, at 8:48 PM, Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:
 |> There are citations from Edison in the 19th century using the word, \
 |> and a quote somewhere by Maurice Wilkes about the stairwell moment \
 |> when he realized much of the rest of his life would be spent finding \
 |> programming errors.
 |> 
 |> That moth was not the first bug, nor the first "bug", it was the \
 |> first recorded "actual bug".
 |> 
 |> -rob

 |https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-institute/ieee-history/did-you-know-edison\
 |-coined-the-term-bug

Interesting, thanks!  1947, then.
As you know well the BSD people dropped their calendar instead of
fixing it.

 |Like Edison, she (Grace Hopper) was recalling the word’s older origins \
 |in the Welsh bwg, the Scottish bogill or bogle, the German bögge, and \

(Only to clarify that „bögge“ is not a German word to the best of my
knowledge.  I was looking, as it sounded so »northern«, there is
»Bodden« for example (a small bay with a very small aperture to
the sea), but no?)

 |the Middle English bugge: the hobgoblins of pre-modern life, resurrected \
 |in the 19th century as, to paraphrase philosopher Gilbert Ryle, ghosts \
 |in the machine.

That not me.  If me, then Schopenhauer.  I also do not like the
Brainfuck language, for example.  You know, if you have to go
somewhere ...  In some Bhuddhistic monasteries, for example, monks
sit cross-legged in front of walls for hours each day.  If you
really want, that will help, if you have learned the lesson.
Working in a kitchen garden is also advisable, you can reap.

 |Electrical circuits can have "bad connections" so I do wonder if Edison \
 |coined this word based on "ghost like" faults that magically appear \
 |and disappear!

I seem to recall now that the bug story was clarified in the past
already?  Now it is for me anyway, thank you all for that.  I was
looking at BSD calendar mail and had a go.

--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer,                The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter           he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter  wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)

Re: [TUHS] 70th anniversary of (official) programming errors

[John Cowan]

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On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 5:57 PM Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen@sdaoden.eu> wrote:


> (Only to clarify that „bögge“ is not a German word to the best of my
> knowledge.  I was looking, as it sounded so »northern«,
>

And so it is: it's Low Saxon, and also exists in the compound form
"böggel-mann", plainly cognate to British English "bogeyman", American
English "boogeyman".  Or borrowed one way or the other: there is so much
borrowing and convergence in the Germanic languages around the North and
Baltic Seas that if we did not know the older varieties of these languages
we would never be able to work out just how they are related.



John Cowan          http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan        cowan@ccil.org
Unless it was by accident that I had offended someone, I never apologized.
        --Quentin Crisp

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Re: [TUHS] 70th anniversary of (official) programming errors

[Steffen Nurpmeso]

John Cowan wrote in
 <CAD2gp_So8VQE4ApVSAHmNgQOKNGbaBbaizovxweu2+DJnx-NKQ@mail.gmail.com>:
 |On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 5:57 PM Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen@sdaoden.eu> \
 |wrote:
 |> (Only to clarify that „bögge“ is not a German word to the best of my
 |> knowledge.  I was looking, as it sounded so »northern«,
 |
 |And so it is: it's Low Saxon, and also exists in the compound form
 |"böggel-mann", plainly cognate to British English "bogeyman", American
 |English "boogeyman".  Or borrowed one way or the other: there is so much
 |borrowing and convergence in the Germanic languages around the North and
 |Baltic Seas that if we did not know the older varieties of these languages
 |we would never be able to work out just how they are related.

This surely leads to nowhere without going into detail, and that
is hard in respect to the dramatical losses that happened on
archives etc., due to whatever reason.  You may confuse personal
opinion.  That happens.

To me it sounds rather like a modification of "Bogen", which can
mean quite some different things itself, from a "bend" (so the
profession of a wood-bender comes to mind at a glance, "böge" is
also the conjugation of "bending" "er böge" thus "he would bend"),
also the weapon "bow", so they could have been happy producers or
unhappy consumers of such things as well.  Of course a "Bogen" is
also needed to play a Violin but putting some strings while
a thunderstorm approaches, hm, so i stay clear from that, i "make
a Bogen around it".  Given how many right politicians have that
name, i let it be good for now.

Cheerio,

--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer,                The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter           he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter  wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)

Re: [TUHS] 70th anniversary of (official) programming errors

[Steffen Nurpmeso]

Steffen Nurpmeso wrote in
 <20210618210047.5uogF%steffen@sdaoden.eu>:
 |John Cowan wrote in
 | <CAD2gp_So8VQE4ApVSAHmNgQOKNGbaBbaizovxweu2+DJnx-NKQ@mail.gmail.com>:
 ||On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 5:57 PM Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen@sdaoden.eu> \
 ||wrote:
 ||> (Only to clarify that „bögge“ is not a German word to the best of my
 ||> knowledge.  I was looking, as it sounded so »northern«,
 ||
 ||And so it is: it's Low Saxon, and also exists in the compound form
 ||"böggel-mann", plainly cognate to British English "bogeyman", American
 ||English "boogeyman".  Or borrowed one way or the other: there is so much
 ||borrowing and convergence in the Germanic languages around the North and
 ||Baltic Seas that if we did not know the older varieties of these languages
 ||we would never be able to work out just how they are related.
 |
 |This surely leads to nowhere without going into detail, and that
 |is hard in respect to the dramatical losses that happened on
 |archives etc., due to whatever reason.  You may confuse personal
 |opinion.  That happens.

Hrhrm.  Also it was shortly before the museum was torn into
pieces.  Who knows what the journalist asked?  Mary Brandel??
Ferry Cross The Mersey, so to say.  When i try to interpret the
actual "sound" of that timeline[1], then "..Hopper is also
credited.." sounds like an addition that crossed one's mind, out
of the actual timeline topic, and so it *seems to me* as if the
collocutor could not be blamed.  Says my gut.

  [1] https://books.google.de/books?id=Y-SUlMt64SoC&pg=PT70&lpg=PT70&dq=census+bureau+bug+1951&source=bl&ots=hulQqmNIT8&sig=ACfU3U2Pdy2HzVAVdzMNq2LUBOqDEpkJLQ&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwip8MDx0ZrxAhVF3aQKHWB0AUcQ6AEwEnoECBEQAw#v=onepage&q=census%20bureau%20bug%201951&f=false

A nice weekend i wish from Germany,

--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer,                The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter           he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter  wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)

Re: [TUHS] 70th anniversary of (official) programming errors

[Harald Arnesen]

Steffen Nurpmeso [18.06.2021 23:00]:

> To me it sounds rather like a modification of "Bogen", which can
> mean quite some different things itself, from a "bend" (so the
> profession of a wood-bender comes to mind at a glance, "böge" is
> also the conjugation of "bending" "er böge" thus "he would bend")

In Norway, "bøg" is an older, derogative description of a homosexual
male. Fits in with the German meaning "bent".
-- 
Hilsen Harald

Re: [TUHS] 70th anniversary of (official) programming errors

[Niklas Karlsson]

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Den lör 19 juni 2021 kl 15:36 skrev Harald Arnesen <skogtun@gmail.com>:

> Steffen Nurpmeso [18.06.2021 23:00]:
>
> > To me it sounds rather like a modification of "Bogen", which can
> > mean quite some different things itself, from a "bend" (so the
> > profession of a wood-bender comes to mind at a glance, "böge" is
> > also the conjugation of "bending" "er böge" thus "he would bend")
>
> In Norway, "bøg" is an older, derogative description of a homosexual
> male. Fits in with the German meaning "bent".
>

"Bög" means a homosexual male in Sweden also. It used to be derogatory
but has been adopted by the gay community itself, so it's really just
descriptive now (although I'm pretty sure kids still use it as an insult).

Niklas

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[TUHS] Bugs, Bööge and Bogeymen (was: 70th anniversary of (official) programming errors)

[Greg 'groggy' Lehey]

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On Friday, 18 June 2021 at 16:19:37 -0400, John Cowan wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 5:57 PM Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen@sdaoden.eu> wrote:
>
>> (Only to clarify that ???bögge??? is not a German word to the best of my
>> knowledge.  I was looking, as it sounded so »northern«,
>
> And so it is: it's Low Saxon, and also exists in the compound form
> "böggel-mann", plainly cognate to British English "bogeyman", American
> English "boogeyman".

Well, there are ways to check these things, especially since Steffen
came up with alternatives.  As they say, „Was weiß Duden?“.

From https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Boeoegg:

  wohl gekürzt aus älter schweizerisch Böggelmann, Bölimann =
  Schreckgestalt, Kobold, Herkunft ungeklärt; vgl. als ähnliche
  Bezeichnung englisch bog(e)y (man) = Schreckgespenst, litauisch
  bužỹs = (ausgestopfte) Schreckgestalt

In other words, a Swiss German word with a derivation similar to what
you expected.  I hadn't expected that (the Swiss connection).  The OED
entry is way out of date (1887) and has nothing useful to say except:

  Found in literature only recently; old people vouched (1887) for its
  use in the nursery as early as 1825, but only as proper name (sense
  1). Possibly a southern nursery form of bogle , boggle , and boggard
  , or going back like them to a simpler form which, as mentioned
  under bog n.1 and bogle n., may be a variant of bugge , bug n.1
  ‘terror, bugbear, scarecrow’. But in the absence of evidence,
  positive statements concerning its relation to these words cannot be
  made.

Greg
--
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Re: [TUHS] Bugs, Bööge and Bogeymen (was: 70th anniversary of (official) programming errors)

[Steffen Nurpmeso]

Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote in
 <20210619075735.GQ23809@eureka.lemis.com>:
 |On Friday, 18 June 2021 at 16:19:37 -0400, John Cowan wrote:
 |> On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 5:57 PM Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen@sdaoden.eu> \
 |> wrote:
 |>
 |>> (Only to clarify that ???bögge??? is not a German word to the best \

(Your mail was LATIN1 yet the data was not it seems.)

 |>> of my
 |>> knowledge.  I was looking, as it sounded so »northern«,
 |>
 |> And so it is: it's Low Saxon, and also exists in the compound form
 |> "böggel-mann", plainly cognate to British English "bogeyman", American
 |> English "boogeyman".
 |
 |Well, there are ways to check these things, especially since Steffen
 |came up with alternatives.  As they say, â␦␦Was weiÃ␦ Duden?â␦␦.
 |
 |From https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Boeoegg:
 |
 |  wohl gekürzt aus älter schweizerisch Böggelmann, Bölimann =
 |  Schreckgestalt, Kobold, Herkunft ungeklärt; vgl. als ähnliche
 |  Bezeichnung englisch bog(e)y (man) = Schreckgespenst, litauisch
 |  bužỹs = (ausgestopfte) Schreckgestalt
 |
 |In other words, a Swiss German word with a derivation similar to what

Well, informative.  I am not a Germanist.  But *i* do not *think*
that a Swiss (Alemannian?) word "Böögge" (that i never have heard,
a Carnival Goblin mask, see [1-4], where [2-4] are "Larve"nmasken,
referring to "Gespenst" aka "Ghost") is related to the family name
"Bögge" in mostly northern Germany.  Schwaben/Alemannen on the one
hand, and Sachsen, Friesen, Westfalen, Franken and who knows which
tribes live "normally" where the name distributes[5].

At [5] one can see a very small piece of land at the bottom, near
Lake Constance, where the name distributes.  Maybe someone was
thrilled after visiting that land during Carnival and decided to
move there -- haha! --, i do not know.  You know, Alemannen
Carnival, they sing things like "kill the cat!" or something, and
have cat fur on their belt!  Listen, Hackers!!  ...yeah, twenty
years ago there was an uprising all across Germany after
Alemannian Carnival was shortly seen in the most widely watched TV
news, iirc, where such a masked one was jumping around and singing
this.  Searching the net i find mostly nothing but [6], and there
you can read

  Miau-Zunft Freiburg
  1. Die Website www.miau-zunft.de  ist nicht mehr erreichbar. Die
  Zunft hat bundesweit Proteste ausgelöst, da sie gewagt hatte, im
  Internet auf ihre Katzenfell-Hästradition hinzuweisen
  2. Zum BZ-Artikel vom 22.12.2001: Katzenjammer bei der Miau-Zunft
  3. Auch unser Gästebuch wurde vom Katzenjammer erfasst.  Wie
  soll dies weitergehen?  Sagen Sie uns doch Ihre Meinung
  4. Beim Rosenmontagsumzug am 11.2.2002 war die Miau-Zunft nicht
  feige und trotz aller Bedrohungen tapfer dabei. Aber nur im
  Käfig-Wagen. Welch ein Katzenjammer!

That is not that, but nonetheless, part of the nationwide protests
("bundesweit[e] Proteste") that seems to have been.
Cancel culture, everywhere.  You need a lobby though, fur animals
usually not have; nor have cows, pigs, chicken, it is your fault
you have to read this vegetarian pamphlet.

Coming back to "Böge" [7] aka "Boege" [5] as a name, together
about 1100 entries twenty years ago (data from 2002).
For [7] there are some more in the Alemannian / Swabian area.
I do not know.

  [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Narrenzunft_Tettnang_Hopfennarr_Narrentreffen_Me%C3%9Fkirch_2006.jpg
  [2] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Tsch%C3%A4gg%C3%A4ttu-Larven_%28Masken%29.jpg
  [3] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larve_(Maske)#/media/Datei:Picswiss_BS-50-23.jpg
  [4] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larve_(Maske)#/media/Datei:Biss.jpg
  [5] http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/Boege_(Familienname)
  [6] https://freiburg-schwarzwald.de/littenweiler/narren.htm
  [7] http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/B%C3%B6ge_(Familienname)

 |you expected.  I hadn't expected that (the Swiss connection).  The OED
 |entry is way out of date (1887) and has nothing useful to say except:
 |
 |  Found in literature only recently; old people vouched (1887) for its
 |  use in the nursery as early as 1825, but only as proper name (sense
 |  1). Possibly a southern nursery form of bogle , boggle , and boggard
 |  , or going back like them to a simpler form which, as mentioned
 |  under bog n.1 and bogle n., may be a variant of bugge , bug n.1
 |  â␦␦terror, bugbear, scarecrowâ␦␦. But in the absence of evidence,
 |  positive statements concerning its relation to these words cannot be
 |  made.
 --End of <20210619075735.GQ23809@eureka.lemis.com>

Harald Arnesen wrote in
 <2419313d-a951-ba2d-48a4-6b0bf225f2eb@gmail.com>:
 |Steffen Nurpmeso [18.06.2021 23:00]:
 |
 |> To me it sounds rather like a modification of "Bogen", which can
 |> mean quite some different things itself, from a "bend" (so the
 |> profession of a wood-bender comes to mind at a glance, "böge" is
 |> also the conjugation of "bending" "er böge" thus "he would bend")
 |
 |In Norway, "bøg" is an older, derogative description of a homosexual
 |male. Fits in with the German meaning "bent".

Hmmm.  Well, given the zappiness and horniness that often can be
found in this corner, the losses we had due to the golden
Californian gang bangs, let me only think of the wonderful Bruce
Chatwin here, there it maybe was a rape, it is terrible!, but
given the sheer amount of popping and other drugs in this culture
i am better silent know.

 |Hilsen Harald
 --End of <2419313d-a951-ba2d-48a4-6b0bf225f2eb@gmail.com>

Niklas Karlsson wrote in
 <CAK6BEgd4yehsSXxpSPCwaR=V=Pa4jrr94tyVPpR7vy6_aUZ_dw@mail.gmail.com>:
 |Den lör 19 juni 2021 kl 15:36 skrev Harald Arnesen <skogtun@gmail.com>:
 ...
 |> In Norway, "bøg" is an older, derogative description of a homosexual
 |> male. Fits in with the German meaning "bent".
 |
 |"Bög" means a homosexual male in Sweden also. It used to be derogatory
 |but has been adopted by the gay community itself, so it's really just
 |descriptive now (although I'm pretty sure kids still use it as an insult).

So *i* could *imagine* Norwegians pronounce their "bøg" and Svedes
pronounce their "Bög" maybe a bit like "Bock", short and tough.
Bo-ck, not Booo-ck (english: not buuuu-ck, o!=u), or so.
The German "Bock" is a "Ram", the "Böckchen" its minimization
(often not advisable!), and ramification of a Ram is often seen as
desirable (wham! bam! thank you ma'am!, though that false jobsite,
in this case).

Rams they have in Friesland aka Low Saxony.  Oh, the wonderful
"Heidschnucke" ("German heath"), yes, [s]he lives there,
a "northern short-tailed [Heh! sic] sheep".  These horns can
"bocken" aka "buck"ing aka is in the season.

 |Niklas
 --End of <CAK6BEgd4yehsSXxpSPCwaR=V=Pa4jrr94tyVPpR7vy6_aUZ_dw@mail.gmail\
 .com>

Ah nice weekend everybody.

Ciao from Germany (albeit Hesse[n]),

--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer,                The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter           he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter  wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)

Re: [TUHS] Bugs, Bööge and Bogeymen (was: 70th anniversary of (official) programming errors)

[Niklas Karlsson]

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Den lör 19 juni 2021 kl 17:48 skrev Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen@sdaoden.eu>:

> So *i* could *imagine* Norwegians pronounce their "bøg" and Svedes
> pronounce their "Bög" maybe a bit like "Bock", short and tough.
> Bo-ck, not Booo-ck (english: not buuuu-ck, o!=u), or so.
> The German "Bock" is a "Ram", the "Böckchen" its minimization
> (often not advisable!), and ramification of a Ram is often seen as
> desirable (wham! bam! thank you ma'am!, though that false jobsite,
> in this case).
>

No, not really. It's a long "ö" and the g is a g, not a k/ck. (Not as sure
of the Norwegian term,
but if I had to guess I'd say the same there.

Niklas

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Re: [TUHS] Bugs, Bööge and Bogeymen (was: 70th anniversary of (official) programming errors)

[Steffen Nurpmeso]

Niklas Karlsson wrote in
 <CAK6BEgd1rRUqMh_k69tPZ6Av=e3DHJ7jd_Zn_GKpzqh0M=7K-A@mail.gmail.com>:
 |Den lör 19 juni 2021 kl 17:48 skrev Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen@sdaoden.eu>:
 |
 |> So *i* could *imagine* Norwegians pronounce their "bøg" and Svedes
 |> pronounce their "Bög" maybe a bit like "Bock", short and tough.
 |> Bo-ck, not Booo-ck (english: not buuuu-ck, o!=u), or so.
 |> The German "Bock" is a "Ram", the "Böckchen" its minimization
 |> (often not advisable!), and ramification of a Ram is often seen as
 |> desirable (wham! bam! thank you ma'am!, though that false jobsite,
 |> in this case).
 |
 |No, not really. It's a long "ö" and the g is a g, not a k/ck. (Not as sure
 |of the Norwegian term,
 |but if I had to guess I'd say the same there.

I should have known that.
I had a tremendous Sverige experience in my childhood (despite the
football world championship 1958 of course, bad that not so good).
It is even online at [1], a Friese (Friesian) going; starting at
second ~60 there is Italian, Japanese, French, and then Swedish
around second 77.

   [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPoiL4UF__0

Thank you.
Ciao from Germany, and a nice Sunday i wish.

--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer,                The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter           he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter  wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)

Re: [TUHS] Bugs, Bööge and Bogeymen (was: 70th anniversary of (official) programming errors)

[Harald Arnesen]

Steffen Nurpmeso [19.06.2021 17:48]:

> So *i* could *imagine* Norwegians pronounce their "bøg" and Svedes
> pronounce their "Bög" maybe a bit like "Bock", short and tough.

No, it's "bøøg", pronounced something like "girl" in English.
-- 
Hilsen Harald

Re: [TUHS] Bugs, Bööge and Bogeymen (was: 70th anniversary of (official) programming errors)

[arnold]

Folks, can we move this discussion elsewhere? It's gotten way off topic.

Thanks,

Arnold

Harald Arnesen <skogtun@gmail.com> wrote:

> Steffen Nurpmeso [19.06.2021 17:48]:
>
> > So *i* could *imagine* Norwegians pronounce their "bøg" and Svedes
> > pronounce their "Bög" maybe a bit like "Bock", short and tough.
>
> No, it's "bøøg", pronounced something like "girl" in English.
> -- 
> Hilsen Harald

[TUHS] Bug etymology (was: 70th anniversary of (official) programming errors)

[Greg 'groggy' Lehey]

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On Tuesday, 15 June 2021 at 18:54:47 -0400, John Cowan wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 6:25 PM Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen@sdaoden.eu> wrote:
>> As not being hard-to-the-core i may have missed it, but also in
>> 1951, in March, the wonderful Grace Hopper "conceives the first
>> compiler, called A-O and later released as Math-Matic.  Hopper is
>> also credited with coining the term 'bug' following an incident
>> involving a moth and a Mark II.
>
> Yes, but wrongly.  The label next to the moth is "First actual case of bug
> being found", and the word "actual" shows that the slang term already
> existed then.

Correct.  The Oxford English Dictionary has two overlapping
definitions (along with dozens of others).  In each case I've shown
the earliest attestation:

 5. Originally U.S.

  a. A defect or fault in a machine (esp. an electrical or electronic
     one), or in a process, etc.

     1875 Operator 15 Aug. 5/1 The biggest ‘bug’ yet has been
          discovered in the U.S. Hotel Electric Annunciator.

  b. Computing. An error or other cause of malfunction in a computer
     program, piece of software, etc.

     1952 Rev. Electronic Digital Computers
          (Amer. Inst. Electr. Engineers) 18/2 The week we spent in
          getting the last bug out of our instruction program was an
          investment we hated to have to make.

It's interesting that they differentiate between the two.

Greg
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