* [TUHS] SunOS 4 in 2024 @ 2024-03-13 20:12 Henry Bent 2024-03-13 20:23 ` [TUHS] " Erik E. Fair ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Henry Bent @ 2024-03-13 20:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 533 bytes --] Hi all, I've been working quite a bit recently with SunOS 4 on a SPARCstation 5, seeing what I can coax out of it in terms of building and supporting a modern computing environment. I know that TUHS isn't really the right place for this, but can someone point me to somewhere that is? I've made significant progress in some areas and spent a lot of cycles to get there - for instance, I have GCC 3.4.6 up and running - so I'd like to contribute to a community if one exists. Is there a modern equivalent of sun-managers? -Henry [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 637 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Re: SunOS 4 in 2024 2024-03-13 20:12 [TUHS] SunOS 4 in 2024 Henry Bent @ 2024-03-13 20:23 ` Erik E. Fair 2024-03-13 20:49 ` Kevin Bowling 2024-03-13 21:27 ` Will Senn 2 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Erik E. Fair @ 2024-03-13 20:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Henry Bent; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Henry, I think you're going to be a whole lot happier with NetBSD or OpenBSD on 32-bit Sun SPARC hardware than trying to coax SunOS into a usable state for the modern, unfortunately rather hostile, Internet. However, I think you're also going to want to make use of the cross-compilation tools provided, i.e., build software on [ugh] fast x86 or ARM hardware rather than wait for the old SPARCs to grind through it. I hope you have cheap electic power service where you are - old Suns run warm and use a lot more electricity per cycle than modern processors. The other way: emulation on modern power-efficient hardware, e.g., with qemu. Erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Re: SunOS 4 in 2024 2024-03-13 20:12 [TUHS] SunOS 4 in 2024 Henry Bent 2024-03-13 20:23 ` [TUHS] " Erik E. Fair @ 2024-03-13 20:49 ` Kevin Bowling 2024-03-13 20:59 ` Henry Bent 2024-03-13 21:27 ` Will Senn 2 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Kevin Bowling @ 2024-03-13 20:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Henry Bent; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 947 bytes --] On Wed, Mar 13, 2024 at 1:13 PM Henry Bent <henry.r.bent@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been working quite a bit recently with SunOS 4 on a SPARCstation 5, > seeing what I can coax out of it in terms of building and supporting a > modern computing environment. I know that TUHS isn't really the right > place for this, but can someone point me to somewhere that is? I've made > significant progress in some areas and spent a lot of cycles to get there - > for instance, I have GCC 3.4.6 up and running - so I'd like to contribute > to a community if one exists. Is there a modern equivalent of sun-managers? > > -Henry > The sun-rescue list has some 4.x traffic. http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue_sunhelp.org There are some discord communities that are fairly active SGI discord: https://discord.gg/bYbWBEFcG2 (has active channels for other companies) Sun discord: https://discord.gg/NwBMkfGD [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2127 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Re: SunOS 4 in 2024 2024-03-13 20:49 ` Kevin Bowling @ 2024-03-13 20:59 ` Henry Bent 2024-03-13 23:28 ` Alexis 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Henry Bent @ 2024-03-13 20:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kevin Bowling; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1232 bytes --] On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 at 16:49, Kevin Bowling <kevin.bowling@kev009.com> wrote: > > > On Wed, Mar 13, 2024 at 1:13 PM Henry Bent <henry.r.bent@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I've been working quite a bit recently with SunOS 4 on a SPARCstation 5, >> seeing what I can coax out of it in terms of building and supporting a >> modern computing environment. I know that TUHS isn't really the right >> place for this, but can someone point me to somewhere that is? I've made >> significant progress in some areas and spent a lot of cycles to get there - >> for instance, I have GCC 3.4.6 up and running - so I'd like to contribute >> to a community if one exists. Is there a modern equivalent of sun-managers? >> >> -Henry >> > > The sun-rescue list has some 4.x traffic. > http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue_sunhelp.org > > There are some discord communities that are fairly active > > SGI discord: > https://discord.gg/bYbWBEFcG2 (has active channels for other companies) > > Sun discord: > https://discord.gg/NwBMkfGD > Thank you, I just subscribed to sun-rescue. I have greybeard syndrome about Discord - I just don't trust that it's going to be a useful resource. -Henry [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2507 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Re: SunOS 4 in 2024 2024-03-13 20:59 ` Henry Bent @ 2024-03-13 23:28 ` Alexis 2024-03-13 23:39 ` Henry Bent 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Alexis @ 2024-03-13 23:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tuhs Henry Bent <henry.r.bent@gmail.com> writes: > Thank you, I just subscribed to sun-rescue. I have greybeard > syndrome > about Discord - I just don't trust that it's going to be a > useful resource. i'm dismayed by the extent to which so many IT communities have moved to Discord[a] for documentation and tribal knowledge: "Discord, or the Death of Lore" -- http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/5509 "Why you shouldn't trust Discord" -- https://cadence.moe/blog/2020-06-06-why-you-shouldnt-trust-discord Alexis. [a] As distinct from _Discourse_, which i generally like as a discussion/forum platform, and which i wish more IT communities were using instead of Discord. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Re: SunOS 4 in 2024 2024-03-13 23:28 ` Alexis @ 2024-03-13 23:39 ` Henry Bent 2024-03-14 0:44 ` Alexis 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Henry Bent @ 2024-03-13 23:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Alexis; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1080 bytes --] On Wed, Mar 13, 2024, 19:29 Alexis <flexibeast@gmail.com> wrote: > Henry Bent <henry.r.bent@gmail.com> writes: > > > Thank you, I just subscribed to sun-rescue. I have greybeard > > syndrome > > about Discord - I just don't trust that it's going to be a > > useful resource. > > i'm dismayed by the extent to which so many IT communities have > moved to Discord[a] for documentation and tribal knowledge: Perhaps I should elaborate. The communities I came of age with were Usenet and mailing lists. While not perfect, they were the (almost) universally recognized central repositories of group knowledge, especially if you did not want to pay for support from a manufacturer. Now, I find that there is a fragmentation happening. There are those of us who still cling to mailing lists - like this one! - and those who are willing to navigate the realms of increasingly compartmentalized other forms of community, Discord included. The fact that there is not a recognized central repository of unpaid support for a product, like sun-managers, I find to be frustrating. -Henry [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1622 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Re: SunOS 4 in 2024 2024-03-13 23:39 ` Henry Bent @ 2024-03-14 0:44 ` Alexis 2024-03-14 13:49 ` Theodore Ts'o 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Alexis @ 2024-03-14 0:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tuhs Henry Bent <henry.r.bent@gmail.com> writes: > Now, I find that there is a fragmentation happening. There are > those > of us > who still cling to mailing lists - like this one! - and those > who > are > willing to navigate the realms of increasingly compartmentalized > other > forms of community, Discord included. The fact that there is not > a > recognized central repository of unpaid support for a product, > like > sun-managers, I find to be frustrating. i basically agree. i won't dwell on this too much further because i recognise that i'm going off-topic, list-wise, but: i think part of the problem is related to different people having different preferences around the interfaces they want/need for discussions. What's happened is that - for reasons i feel are typically due to a lock-in-oriented business model - many discussion systems don't provide different interfaces/'views' to the same underlying discussions. Which results in one community on platform X, another community on platform Y, another community on platform Z .... Whereas, for example, the 'Rocksolid Light' BBS/forum software provides a Web-based interface to an underlying NNTP-based system, such that people can use their NNTP clients to engage in forum discussions. i wish this sort of approach was more common. Alexis. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Re: SunOS 4 in 2024 2024-03-14 0:44 ` Alexis @ 2024-03-14 13:49 ` Theodore Ts'o 0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Theodore Ts'o @ 2024-03-14 13:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Alexis; +Cc: tuhs On Thu, Mar 14, 2024 at 11:44:45AM +1100, Alexis wrote: > > i basically agree. i won't dwell on this too much further because i > recognise that i'm going off-topic, list-wise, but: > > i think part of the problem is related to different people having > different preferences around the interfaces they want/need for > discussions. What's happened is that - for reasons i feel are > typically due to a lock-in-oriented business model - many discussion > systems don't provide different interfaces/'views' to the same > underlying discussions. Which results in one community on platform X, > another community on platform Y, another community on platform Z > .... Whereas, for example, the 'Rocksolid Light' BBS/forum software > provides a Web-based interface to an underlying NNTP-based system, > such that people can use their NNTP clients to engage in forum > discussions. i wish this sort of approach was more common. This is a bit off-topic, and so if we need to push this to a different list (I'm not sure COFF is much better?), let's do so --- but this is a conversation which is super-improtant to have. If not just for Unix heritage, but for the heritage of other collecvtive systems-related projects, whether they be open source or proprietary. A few weeks ago, there were people who showed up on the git mailing list requesting that discussion of the git system move from the mailing list to using a "forge" web-based system, such as github or gitlab. Their reason was that there were tons of people who think e-mail is so 1970's, and that if we wanted to be more welcoming to the up-and-coming programmers, we should meet them were they were at. The obvious observations of how github was proprietary, and locking up our history there might be contra-indicated was made, and the problem with gitlab is that it doesn't have a good e-mail gateway, and while we might be disenfranchising the young'uns by not using some new-fangled web interface, disenfranchising the existing base of expertise was even worse idea. The best that we have today is lore.kernel.org, which is used by both the Linux Kernel and the git development communities. It uses public-inbox to archive the mailing list traffic, and it can be accessed via threaded e-mail interface, as well as via NNTP. There are also tools for subscribing to messages that match a filtering criteria, as well as tools for extracting patches plus code review sign-offs into a form that can be easily consumed by git. Of course none of this is a substitute for hiring a technical writer working with keye developers to create architecture documentation so that when a key developer retires (or gets hit by a bus) that critical knowledge doesn't get lost. This requires real investment, and while some communities might have a large corporate-funded foundation who might be able to fund that sort of thing, one of the things we've found is that there are real limits to the sort of documentation work that can be done by volunteers. (For example, right now the Linux kernel documentation maintainer is also the owner and editor for the Linux Weekly News, and Jon is keenly aware of the limits of what he can do in his copious spare time. And none of us is getting any younger....) So it's a real problem, and I think it's one that needs a lot more conversation, both within various open source projects, and perhaps between different projects to exchange some techniques for better preserving lore. After all, it would be great if we could make things easier for the next generation's *-Heritage-Society. :-) - Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Re: SunOS 4 in 2024 2024-03-13 20:12 [TUHS] SunOS 4 in 2024 Henry Bent 2024-03-13 20:23 ` [TUHS] " Erik E. Fair 2024-03-13 20:49 ` Kevin Bowling @ 2024-03-13 21:27 ` Will Senn 2024-03-13 21:31 ` Henry Bent 2024-03-14 0:40 ` Alan Coopersmith 2 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Will Senn @ 2024-03-13 21:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tuhs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1354 bytes --] On 3/13/24 3:12 PM, Henry Bent wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been working quite a bit recently with SunOS 4 on a SPARCstation > 5, seeing what I can coax out of it in terms of building and > supporting a modern computing environment. I know that TUHS isn't > really the right place for this, but can someone point me to somewhere > that is? I've made significant progress in some areas and spent a lot > of cycles to get there - for instance, I have GCC 3.4.6 up and running > - so I'd like to contribute to a community if one exists. Is there a > modern equivalent of sun-managers? > > -Henry Not an answer to the question, but on a tangent... I recently saw that Solaris 11.4 SRU66 was released and had a yearning to see how things in Solaris land were doing (can't stand Gnome so OpenIndiana's a bust)... but with Oracle's Solaris, it's a mess at least for hobbyists (only get release patches, so I'm guessing the most up to date 'release' was 11.4 in 2018). So, when I saw your post on SunOS 4, I thought I'd tool around and see if it was easy to get rolling as a VM, turns out things have come a long way on that front: https://defcon.no/sysadm/playing-with-sunos-4-1-4-on-qemu/ OpenWindows 3... wow... works great on my Mint instance. Now, if I could just remember how commands work on SunOS :). Will [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2279 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Re: SunOS 4 in 2024 2024-03-13 21:27 ` Will Senn @ 2024-03-13 21:31 ` Henry Bent [not found] ` <E4752C7E-2799-4978-B221-9DB86F872C6A@baugh.org> 2024-03-14 0:40 ` Alan Coopersmith 1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Henry Bent @ 2024-03-13 21:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Will Senn; +Cc: tuhs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1818 bytes --] On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 at 17:27, Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.com> wrote: > On 3/13/24 3:12 PM, Henry Bent wrote: > > Hi all, > > I've been working quite a bit recently with SunOS 4 on a SPARCstation 5, > seeing what I can coax out of it in terms of building and supporting a > modern computing environment. I know that TUHS isn't really the right > place for this, but can someone point me to somewhere that is? I've made > significant progress in some areas and spent a lot of cycles to get there - > for instance, I have GCC 3.4.6 up and running - so I'd like to contribute > to a community if one exists. Is there a modern equivalent of sun-managers? > > -Henry > > Not an answer to the question, but on a tangent... > > I recently saw that Solaris 11.4 SRU66 was released and had a yearning to > see how things in Solaris land were doing (can't stand Gnome so > OpenIndiana's a bust)... but with Oracle's Solaris, it's a mess at least > for hobbyists (only get release patches, so I'm guessing the most up to > date 'release' was 11.4 in 2018). So, when I saw your post on SunOS 4, I > thought I'd tool around and see if it was easy to get rolling as a VM, > turns out things have come a long way on that front: > > https://defcon.no/sysadm/playing-with-sunos-4-1-4-on-qemu/ > > OpenWindows 3... wow... works great on my Mint instance. Now, if I could > just remember how commands work on SunOS :). > Thanks Will! You may also be interested in https://john-millikin.com/running-sunos-4-in-qemu-sparc as another resource about running SunOS 4 in QEMU. I have considered moving my setup to QEMU, especially as it would be very easy to create a hard drive image since I am using a SCSI2SD board, but there is something about running these things on the original hardware that is difficult to leave behind. -Henry [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2859 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
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* [TUHS] Re: SunOS 4 in 2024 [not found] ` <E4752C7E-2799-4978-B221-9DB86F872C6A@baugh.org> @ 2024-03-13 21:56 ` Henry Bent [not found] ` <F3E036CF-277C-4B2B-9335-D42F5ABAFD6B@baugh.org> 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Henry Bent @ 2024-03-13 21:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: earl; +Cc: Will Senn, John Foust via TUHS [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3003 bytes --] TME - most recently https://osdn.net/projects/nme/ - in theory does what you want. Its setup and use is a bit idiosyncratic, and I have found that it is unhappy running on OSs other than NetBSD, but if you get it running it just works. I've used it to set up installations of SunOS 3 and 4 on sun2, sun3, and sun4 architectures. -Henry On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 at 17:49, <earl@baugh.org> wrote: > I’m looking for a “Sun OS 3.5” emulation running where I can attach a SCSI > emulator to it and get the full OS installed. > I’ve got tape images but I haven’t found the process to emulate how it > used to work. > > From the initial boot prompt, you extracted them to the “swap partition” > and then started the install and it would prompt you for the next tape when > needed. > So, I guess we’d need an emulated tape or something, etc. I have all > the tar’s (all the way back to Sun OS 1 or so) but have been frustrated > trying to make some progress. > > Earl > > > On Mar 13, 2024, at 5:31 PM, Henry Bent <henry.r.bent@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 at 17:27, Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 3/13/24 3:12 PM, Henry Bent wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> I've been working quite a bit recently with SunOS 4 on a SPARCstation 5, >> seeing what I can coax out of it in terms of building and supporting a >> modern computing environment. I know that TUHS isn't really the right >> place for this, but can someone point me to somewhere that is? I've made >> significant progress in some areas and spent a lot of cycles to get there - >> for instance, I have GCC 3.4.6 up and running - so I'd like to contribute >> to a community if one exists. Is there a modern equivalent of sun-managers? >> >> -Henry >> >> Not an answer to the question, but on a tangent... >> >> I recently saw that Solaris 11.4 SRU66 was released and had a yearning to >> see how things in Solaris land were doing (can't stand Gnome so >> OpenIndiana's a bust)... but with Oracle's Solaris, it's a mess at least >> for hobbyists (only get release patches, so I'm guessing the most up to >> date 'release' was 11.4 in 2018). So, when I saw your post on SunOS 4, I >> thought I'd tool around and see if it was easy to get rolling as a VM, >> turns out things have come a long way on that front: >> >> https://defcon.no/sysadm/playing-with-sunos-4-1-4-on-qemu/ >> >> OpenWindows 3... wow... works great on my Mint instance. Now, if I could >> just remember how commands work on SunOS :). >> > > Thanks Will! You may also be interested in > https://john-millikin.com/running-sunos-4-in-qemu-sparc as another > resource about running SunOS 4 in QEMU. I have considered moving my setup > to QEMU, especially as it would be very easy to create a hard drive image > since I am using a SCSI2SD board, but there is something about running > these things on the original hardware that is difficult to leave behind. > > -Henry > > > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4469 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
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* [TUHS] Re: SunOS 4 in 2024 [not found] ` <F3E036CF-277C-4B2B-9335-D42F5ABAFD6B@baugh.org> @ 2024-03-13 22:09 ` Henry Bent [not found] ` <54A3AD3C-1296-41EB-8D7B-E940AF2740CD@baugh.org> 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Henry Bent @ 2024-03-13 22:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: earl; +Cc: Will Senn, John Foust via TUHS [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5253 bytes --] The emulation of proper tape drive records is present in TME - see this fragment from the setup file that I have to install SunOS 2: ## power up the machine: ## # uncomment this line to automatically power up the machine when # tmesh starts: # command tape0 load sunos-2.0-sun2/tape1/01 sunos-2.0-sun2/tape1/02 sunos-2.0-sun2/tape1/03 sunos-2.0-sun2/tape1/04 sunos-2.0-sun2/tape1/05 sunos-2.0-sun2/tape1/06 sunos-2.0-sun2/tape1/07 sunos-2.0-sun2/tape1/08 sunos-2.0-sun2/tape1/09 sunos-2.0-sun2/tape1/10 command mainbus0 power up Let me know if you need more of a walkthrough, I'd have to get NetBSD running in a VM as I haven't worked with this in a long time, but I'm sure it still works. -Henry On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 at 18:04, <earl@baugh.org> wrote: > I had old instructions to do this but getting TME running was a bit > quirky. And the package had lost most of it’s support. > (I did just go out and find that some folks have somewhat resurrected it…) > > I have the install manual for 3.5 ( > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/sun/sunos/3.5/800-2089-10A_Release_3.5_Manual_for_the_Sun_Workstation_198711.pdf > ) > And did find this about TME Now ( https://pkgsrc.se/wip/tme ) > And these instructions (which from the link before this page indicated as > of 2019 they still worked > http://people.csail.mit.edu/fredette/tme/sun3-150-nbsd.html ) > > That would get me “close” if I could somehow write to an emulated SCSI > device.. or the SD card that supported it… etc. Blue SCSI, Green SCSI, Pi > SCSI, etc. I don’t care which (would prefer something that would let me use > a “real” drive… SSD or similar is fine… rather than SD card). I do have an > image that gets me “somewhat” booting with a SCSI2SD but the additional > drive mounts are wrong in the fstab/mtab so I can’t get it fully to boot…. > > If I can figure out the process, I’ll make images and share them (for all > the early Sun OS’s) and write up a web page and post it to archive.org so > nobody has to go thru this again :-) > > Earl > > On Mar 13, 2024, at 5:56 PM, Henry Bent <henry.r.bent@gmail.com> wrote: > > TME - most recently https://osdn.net/projects/nme/ - in theory does what > you want. Its setup and use is a bit idiosyncratic, and I have found that > it is unhappy running on OSs other than NetBSD, but if you get it running > it just works. I've used it to set up installations of SunOS 3 and 4 on > sun2, sun3, and sun4 architectures. > > -Henry > > On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 at 17:49, <earl@baugh.org> wrote: > >> I’m looking for a “Sun OS 3.5” emulation running where I can attach a >> SCSI emulator to it and get the full OS installed. >> I’ve got tape images but I haven’t found the process to emulate how it >> used to work. >> >> From the initial boot prompt, you extracted them to the “swap partition” >> and then started the install and it would prompt you for the next tape when >> needed. >> So, I guess we’d need an emulated tape or something, etc. I have all >> the tar’s (all the way back to Sun OS 1 or so) but have been frustrated >> trying to make some progress. >> >> Earl >> >> >> On Mar 13, 2024, at 5:31 PM, Henry Bent <henry.r.bent@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 at 17:27, Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On 3/13/24 3:12 PM, Henry Bent wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I've been working quite a bit recently with SunOS 4 on a SPARCstation 5, >>> seeing what I can coax out of it in terms of building and supporting a >>> modern computing environment. I know that TUHS isn't really the right >>> place for this, but can someone point me to somewhere that is? I've made >>> significant progress in some areas and spent a lot of cycles to get there - >>> for instance, I have GCC 3.4.6 up and running - so I'd like to contribute >>> to a community if one exists. Is there a modern equivalent of sun-managers? >>> >>> -Henry >>> >>> Not an answer to the question, but on a tangent... >>> >>> I recently saw that Solaris 11.4 SRU66 was released and had a yearning >>> to see how things in Solaris land were doing (can't stand Gnome so >>> OpenIndiana's a bust)... but with Oracle's Solaris, it's a mess at least >>> for hobbyists (only get release patches, so I'm guessing the most up to >>> date 'release' was 11.4 in 2018). So, when I saw your post on SunOS 4, I >>> thought I'd tool around and see if it was easy to get rolling as a VM, >>> turns out things have come a long way on that front: >>> >>> https://defcon.no/sysadm/playing-with-sunos-4-1-4-on-qemu/ >>> >>> OpenWindows 3... wow... works great on my Mint instance. Now, if I could >>> just remember how commands work on SunOS :). >>> >> >> Thanks Will! You may also be interested in >> https://john-millikin.com/running-sunos-4-in-qemu-sparc as another >> resource about running SunOS 4 in QEMU. I have considered moving my setup >> to QEMU, especially as it would be very easy to create a hard drive image >> since I am using a SCSI2SD board, but there is something about running >> these things on the original hardware that is difficult to leave behind. >> >> -Henry >> >> >> > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 7600 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
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* [TUHS] Re: SunOS 4 in 2024 [not found] ` <54A3AD3C-1296-41EB-8D7B-E940AF2740CD@baugh.org> @ 2024-03-13 22:23 ` Henry Bent 0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Henry Bent @ 2024-03-13 22:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: earl; +Cc: Will Senn, John Foust via TUHS [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 6360 bytes --] I don't know about the PiSCSI in particular. For the SCSI2SD, if you have the drive properly defined in the controller you can just use dd to write the image to the SD card at the offset where the drive is defined. If the drive is the first thing on the card, dd if=image of=drive conv=notrunc will do what you want. -Henry On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 at 18:12, <earl@baugh.org> wrote: > I’ll have to see about pulling stuff out this weekend and maybe move > forward. > > Still am missing one part — how to get an external SCSI emulator to the > point where I can get a disk image to it. > > Is there a way to move the disk created in TME onto an emulator?? (BTW, > I’ll probably be using the PiSCSI for this, since I want to have multiple > images out there, as well as a SD drive so I don’t chance losing stuff > after getting it all set up. > > Earl > > On Mar 13, 2024, at 6:09 PM, Henry Bent <henry.r.bent@gmail.com> wrote: > > The emulation of proper tape drive records is present in TME - see this > fragment from the setup file that I have to install SunOS 2: > > ## power up the machine: > ## > # uncomment this line to automatically power up the machine when > # tmesh starts: > # > command tape0 load sunos-2.0-sun2/tape1/01 sunos-2.0-sun2/tape1/02 > sunos-2.0-sun2/tape1/03 sunos-2.0-sun2/tape1/04 sunos-2.0-sun2/tape1/05 > sunos-2.0-sun2/tape1/06 sunos-2.0-sun2/tape1/07 sunos-2.0-sun2/tape1/08 > sunos-2.0-sun2/tape1/09 sunos-2.0-sun2/tape1/10 > command mainbus0 power up > > Let me know if you need more of a walkthrough, I'd have to get NetBSD > running in a VM as I haven't worked with this in a long time, but I'm sure > it still works. > > -Henry > > On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 at 18:04, <earl@baugh.org> wrote: > >> I had old instructions to do this but getting TME running was a bit >> quirky. And the package had lost most of it’s support. >> (I did just go out and find that some folks have somewhat resurrected >> it…) >> >> I have the install manual for 3.5 ( >> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/sun/sunos/3.5/800-2089-10A_Release_3.5_Manual_for_the_Sun_Workstation_198711.pdf >> ) >> And did find this about TME Now ( https://pkgsrc.se/wip/tme ) >> And these instructions (which from the link before this page indicated as >> of 2019 they still worked >> http://people.csail.mit.edu/fredette/tme/sun3-150-nbsd.html ) >> >> That would get me “close” if I could somehow write to an emulated SCSI >> device.. or the SD card that supported it… etc. Blue SCSI, Green SCSI, Pi >> SCSI, etc. I don’t care which (would prefer something that would let me use >> a “real” drive… SSD or similar is fine… rather than SD card). I do have an >> image that gets me “somewhat” booting with a SCSI2SD but the additional >> drive mounts are wrong in the fstab/mtab so I can’t get it fully to boot…. >> >> If I can figure out the process, I’ll make images and share them (for all >> the early Sun OS’s) and write up a web page and post it to archive.org so >> nobody has to go thru this again :-) >> >> Earl >> >> On Mar 13, 2024, at 5:56 PM, Henry Bent <henry.r.bent@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> TME - most recently https://osdn.net/projects/nme/ - in theory does what >> you want. Its setup and use is a bit idiosyncratic, and I have found that >> it is unhappy running on OSs other than NetBSD, but if you get it running >> it just works. I've used it to set up installations of SunOS 3 and 4 on >> sun2, sun3, and sun4 architectures. >> >> -Henry >> >> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 at 17:49, <earl@baugh.org> wrote: >> >>> I’m looking for a “Sun OS 3.5” emulation running where I can attach a >>> SCSI emulator to it and get the full OS installed. >>> I’ve got tape images but I haven’t found the process to emulate how it >>> used to work. >>> >>> From the initial boot prompt, you extracted them to the “swap partition” >>> and then started the install and it would prompt you for the next tape when >>> needed. >>> So, I guess we’d need an emulated tape or something, etc. I have all >>> the tar’s (all the way back to Sun OS 1 or so) but have been frustrated >>> trying to make some progress. >>> >>> Earl >>> >>> >>> On Mar 13, 2024, at 5:31 PM, Henry Bent <henry.r.bent@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 at 17:27, Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On 3/13/24 3:12 PM, Henry Bent wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I've been working quite a bit recently with SunOS 4 on a SPARCstation >>>> 5, seeing what I can coax out of it in terms of building and supporting a >>>> modern computing environment. I know that TUHS isn't really the right >>>> place for this, but can someone point me to somewhere that is? I've made >>>> significant progress in some areas and spent a lot of cycles to get there - >>>> for instance, I have GCC 3.4.6 up and running - so I'd like to contribute >>>> to a community if one exists. Is there a modern equivalent of sun-managers? >>>> >>>> -Henry >>>> >>>> Not an answer to the question, but on a tangent... >>>> >>>> I recently saw that Solaris 11.4 SRU66 was released and had a yearning >>>> to see how things in Solaris land were doing (can't stand Gnome so >>>> OpenIndiana's a bust)... but with Oracle's Solaris, it's a mess at least >>>> for hobbyists (only get release patches, so I'm guessing the most up to >>>> date 'release' was 11.4 in 2018). So, when I saw your post on SunOS 4, I >>>> thought I'd tool around and see if it was easy to get rolling as a VM, >>>> turns out things have come a long way on that front: >>>> >>>> https://defcon.no/sysadm/playing-with-sunos-4-1-4-on-qemu/ >>>> >>>> OpenWindows 3... wow... works great on my Mint instance. Now, if I >>>> could just remember how commands work on SunOS :). >>>> >>> >>> Thanks Will! You may also be interested in >>> https://john-millikin.com/running-sunos-4-in-qemu-sparc as another >>> resource about running SunOS 4 in QEMU. I have considered moving my setup >>> to QEMU, especially as it would be very easy to create a hard drive image >>> since I am using a SCSI2SD board, but there is something about running >>> these things on the original hardware that is difficult to leave behind. >>> >>> -Henry >>> >>> >>> >> > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 9094 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Re: SunOS 4 in 2024 2024-03-13 21:27 ` Will Senn 2024-03-13 21:31 ` Henry Bent @ 2024-03-14 0:40 ` Alan Coopersmith 2024-03-14 0:51 ` segaloco via TUHS 2024-03-14 20:23 ` Earl Baugh 1 sibling, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Alan Coopersmith @ 2024-03-14 0:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Will Senn, tuhs On 3/13/24 14:27, Will Senn wrote: > I recently saw that Solaris 11.4 SRU66 was released and had a yearning to see > how things in Solaris land were doing (can't stand Gnome so OpenIndiana's a > bust)... You might not find Solaris much more to your liking then, since Solaris 11.0 and later only include the GNOME desktop. (Solaris 2.6 through 10 also had CDE, and Solaris 1.0 through 8 also had OpenWindows.) In Solaris 11.4, it's GNOME 3 - up to GNOME 41 in SRU 66. OpenIndiana went with MATE instead of GNOME 3, and I believe has some other desktop choices as well. The Tribblix distro of illumos offers a choice of Xfce, Mate, OpenCDE, or Enlightenment on top of the same core OS derived from OpenSolaris. > but with Oracle's Solaris, it's a mess at least for hobbyists (only get > release patches, so I'm guessing the most up to date 'release' was 11.4 in > 2018). There's also the "CBE" release from 2022 to allow people building open source to build & test on a somewhat newer base: https://blogs.oracle.com/solaris/post/announcing-the-first-oracle-solaris-114-cbe It's roughly equivalent to a beta build of Solaris 11.4 SRU 42. (Solaris 11.4 issues "Support Repository Updates" or SRUs around once a month, so the SRU number is basically the count of the number of months after August 2018 that a given SRU was released.) But yeah, if you want to stay up to date, you need a support contract. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@oracle.com Oracle Solaris Engineering - https://blogs.oracle.com/solaris ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Re: SunOS 4 in 2024 2024-03-14 0:40 ` Alan Coopersmith @ 2024-03-14 0:51 ` segaloco via TUHS 2024-03-14 20:23 ` Earl Baugh 1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: segaloco via TUHS @ 2024-03-14 0:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society On Wednesday, March 13th, 2024 at 5:40 PM, Alan Coopersmith <alan.coopersmith@oracle.com> wrote: > The Tribblix distro of illumos offers a choice of > Xfce, Mate, OpenCDE, or Enlightenment on top of the same core OS derived from > OpenSolaris. > > -- > -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@oracle.com > Oracle Solaris Engineering - https://blogs.oracle.com/solaris Of the illumos distros I've tried the past few years, Tribblix felt quite concise and easy to get started with, and ran leaner than the others I tried. Peter Tribble was also quite quick to respond when I had some questions about a few things. I'd recommend it to folks who do want to give things a spin in that realm, but I've stepped outside the x86 stream these days to aarch64. Still, if you're running an x86 type CPU or SPARC, might be worth a spin! - Matt G. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Re: SunOS 4 in 2024 2024-03-14 0:40 ` Alan Coopersmith 2024-03-14 0:51 ` segaloco via TUHS @ 2024-03-14 20:23 ` Earl Baugh 1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Earl Baugh @ 2024-03-14 20:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Alan Coopersmith; +Cc: Will Senn, tuhs Another reason why it’s fun use the older OS’s. For old Sun HW, I don’t believe SunView can be beat. It was always very performant for me, and met the basic goals of a window manager that I needed. (I’m not one that needs a huge amount of customization..) Earl > On Mar 13, 2024, at 8:40 PM, Alan Coopersmith <alan.coopersmith@oracle.com> wrote: > > On 3/13/24 14:27, Will Senn wrote: >> I recently saw that Solaris 11.4 SRU66 was released and had a yearning to see how things in Solaris land were doing (can't stand Gnome so OpenIndiana's a bust)... > > You might not find Solaris much more to your liking then, since Solaris 11.0 > and later only include the GNOME desktop. (Solaris 2.6 through 10 also had > CDE, and Solaris 1.0 through 8 also had OpenWindows.) In Solaris 11.4, it's > GNOME 3 - up to GNOME 41 in SRU 66. > > OpenIndiana went with MATE instead of GNOME 3, and I believe has some other > desktop choices as well. The Tribblix distro of illumos offers a choice of > Xfce, Mate, OpenCDE, or Enlightenment on top of the same core OS derived from > OpenSolaris. > >> but with Oracle's Solaris, it's a mess at least for hobbyists (only get release patches, so I'm guessing the most up to date 'release' was 11.4 in 2018). > > There's also the "CBE" release from 2022 to allow people building open source > to build & test on a somewhat newer base: > https://blogs.oracle.com/solaris/post/announcing-the-first-oracle-solaris-114-cbe > > It's roughly equivalent to a beta build of Solaris 11.4 SRU 42. (Solaris 11.4 > issues "Support Repository Updates" or SRUs around once a month, so the SRU > number is basically the count of the number of months after August 2018 that > a given SRU was released.) > > But yeah, if you want to stay up to date, you need a support contract. > > -- > -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@oracle.com > Oracle Solaris Engineering - https://blogs.oracle.com/solaris > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2024-03-14 20:24 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 16+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2024-03-13 20:12 [TUHS] SunOS 4 in 2024 Henry Bent 2024-03-13 20:23 ` [TUHS] " Erik E. Fair 2024-03-13 20:49 ` Kevin Bowling 2024-03-13 20:59 ` Henry Bent 2024-03-13 23:28 ` Alexis 2024-03-13 23:39 ` Henry Bent 2024-03-14 0:44 ` Alexis 2024-03-14 13:49 ` Theodore Ts'o 2024-03-13 21:27 ` Will Senn 2024-03-13 21:31 ` Henry Bent [not found] ` <E4752C7E-2799-4978-B221-9DB86F872C6A@baugh.org> 2024-03-13 21:56 ` Henry Bent [not found] ` <F3E036CF-277C-4B2B-9335-D42F5ABAFD6B@baugh.org> 2024-03-13 22:09 ` Henry Bent [not found] ` <54A3AD3C-1296-41EB-8D7B-E940AF2740CD@baugh.org> 2024-03-13 22:23 ` Henry Bent 2024-03-14 0:40 ` Alan Coopersmith 2024-03-14 0:51 ` segaloco via TUHS 2024-03-14 20:23 ` Earl Baugh
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