* [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again @ 2023-08-09 23:18 Stuart Morrow 2023-08-09 23:41 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir 2023-08-10 0:08 ` Jacob Moody 0 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Stuart Morrow @ 2023-08-09 23:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front https://kwlug.org/node/1319 Go to 12:10. Apparently "Exit" is confusable with "Delete". I wouldn't bother with the rest of the video. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-09 23:18 [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again Stuart Morrow @ 2023-08-09 23:41 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir 2023-08-10 0:00 ` unobe 2023-08-10 0:08 ` Jacob Moody 1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2023-08-09 23:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front It's hard to bother with a video that doesn't even load. Hope it works for someone else. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-09 23:41 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2023-08-10 0:00 ` unobe 2023-08-10 11:35 ` Stuart Morrow 0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: unobe @ 2023-08-10 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front Quoth Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir <sigrid@ftrv.se>: > It's hard to bother with a video that doesn't even load. > Hope it works for someone else. Worked for me--I used mothra to go to the linked page, then to the archive.org link, and downloaded the mp4 file, and played with treason. I was also to watch the video on an apple device. It just showed that during the presentation, the presenter mis-clicked 'Exit' and had to re-start his drawterm. I recall there was some discussion around this added menu item and if it should have a confirmation akin to what is done with mothra's 'exit' menu item: another click to confirm. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-10 0:00 ` unobe @ 2023-08-10 11:35 ` Stuart Morrow 2023-08-10 14:13 ` qwx 2023-08-10 15:04 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir 0 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Stuart Morrow @ 2023-08-10 11:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front > It just showed that during the presentation, the presenter mis-clicked > 'Exit' and had to re-start his drawterm. I recall there was some > discussion around this added menu item and if it should have a > confirmation akin to what is done with mothra's 'exit' menu item: > another click to confirm. The discussion should have been should it be enabled at all. I'm pretty against keyboard control in window management in particular, triply so on Plan 9, but keybindings could actually be tolerated if they were available only while the window management menu is quasimodally held open with button 3. It's better than the nested GNU Screen way of controlling where commands go. And Exit is neither really "window management" anyway nor something anyone is actually missing if it's undiscoverable without a man page read. And q to quit is a Plan 9 standard already. Also, if checking for /env/wsys is too much magic (this was the real reason Exit was enabled - not that anyone actually *uses* it in the parent rio) you could check for service=cpu instead and get practically the same result. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-10 11:35 ` Stuart Morrow @ 2023-08-10 14:13 ` qwx 2023-08-10 18:17 ` Stuart Morrow 2023-08-10 15:04 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir 1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: qwx @ 2023-08-10 14:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front > The discussion should have been should it be enabled at all. > > I'm pretty against keyboard control in window management in > particular, triply so on Plan 9, but keybindings could actually be > tolerated if they were available only while the window management menu > is quasimodally held open with button 3. It's better than the nested > GNU Screen way of controlling where commands go. > > And Exit is neither really "window management" anyway nor something > anyone is actually missing if it's undiscoverable without a man page > read. > > And q to quit is a Plan 9 standard already. > > Also, if checking for /env/wsys is too much magic (this was the real > reason Exit was enabled - not that anyone actually *uses* it in the > parent rio) you could check for service=cpu instead and get > practically the same result. The current state was generally agreed upon after plenty of discussion, which occurred before, during and after the patches surrounding rio Exit, and which anyone could look up if they cared to. I don't think anything prevents anyone from just reverting or modifying them if they're unsatisfied with them. If you want GNU screen on plan9, go for it. You can implement it without even touching rio by using /dev/kbdtap. You can also combine that with riow and bar scripts. There's literally nothing preventing you from reimplementing your favorite unix terminal multiplexer or GNU tool on plan9. Of course, you probably already know all of this, which is why you're reviving this discussion after someone failed to quit sam or operate rio for a moment. I didn't know about q being standard though, I tried typing q in acme, but it doesn't work, what gives? qwx ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-10 14:13 ` qwx @ 2023-08-10 18:17 ` Stuart Morrow 0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Stuart Morrow @ 2023-08-10 18:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front On 10/08/2023, qwx@sciops.net <qwx@sciops.net> wrote: > If you want GNU screen on plan9 Nice comprehension. Show me where I said this. Or are you being this obtuse just so you can double down on this of all 9front changes? The rest of your email is neither here nor there as it's about how you could implement a Linux weenie window manager, which I have always been against (on three basises), and 9front types themselves have generally wanted. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-10 11:35 ` Stuart Morrow 2023-08-10 14:13 ` qwx @ 2023-08-10 15:04 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir 2023-08-10 18:24 ` Stuart Morrow 2023-08-10 18:29 ` Nathan Gorvett 1 sibling, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2023-08-10 15:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front > The discussion should have been should it be enabled at all. That's just, like, your opinion, man. We have discussions on #cat-v and on grid. Everybody is welcome to join in. But no, better speculate elsewhere (reddit, discord, whatever) then complain about artwork touching here, on the ML. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-10 15:04 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2023-08-10 18:24 ` Stuart Morrow 2023-08-10 19:33 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir 2023-08-10 18:29 ` Nathan Gorvett 1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Stuart Morrow @ 2023-08-10 18:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front > We have discussions on #cat-v and on grid. Or, in this case, on the list. > But no, better speculate elsewhere (reddit, discord, whatever) > then complain about artwork touching here, on the ML. I'm "speculating" on the list, although I don't know why you'd say speculating when all the following are just facts. Exit sounds like it could mean to close, plus it's easier to find in the menu than Delete is. The button 3 menu always appears, and can only appear, in the rio that has focus, so keyboard stuff that only works while that menu is up will always go to the right rio. Is this not the biggest reason why keyboard controls (desired by 9front types) have always been kept out of rio? Exit is something nobody wants unless they're advanced enough to know about hidden menu commands. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-10 18:24 ` Stuart Morrow @ 2023-08-10 19:33 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir 2023-08-10 19:42 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir 2023-08-11 0:07 ` Stuart Morrow 0 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2023-08-10 19:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front > > We have discussions on #cat-v and on grid. > > Or, in this case, on the list. Right, except Exit was discussed back and forth on both channels I mentioned, while being developed and after, with many opinions considered. We arrived at where we are now based on the result of those discussions. It wasn't just one person secretly git/push'ing. > > But no, better speculate elsewhere (reddit, discord, whatever) > > then complain about artwork touching here, on the ML. > > I'm "speculating" on the list, although I don't know why you'd say > speculating when all the following are just facts. > > Exit sounds like it could mean to close, plus it's easier to find in > the menu than Delete is. That is a speculation, not a fact. Maybe for you personally this is confusing? Quoting the author of the video you linked: < nzm_> hey, I just saw on ML someone mentioned my presentation - happy you found it but my error was oddly trivial and I'm not sure what the issue is > Exit is something nobody wants unless they're advanced enough to know > about hidden menu commands. That is a speculation. Several people wanted an Exit and it was enough "wants" to get it in. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-10 19:33 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2023-08-10 19:42 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir 2023-08-11 0:08 ` Stuart Morrow 2023-08-11 0:07 ` Stuart Morrow 1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2023-08-10 19:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front Alternative idea - more constructive: 1) produce a patch with the desired behavior 2) send the patch to the ML If developers do not consider it useful, maybe someone else will, and would want to apply it locally, which is very trivial. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-10 19:42 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2023-08-11 0:08 ` Stuart Morrow 0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Stuart Morrow @ 2023-08-11 0:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front No can do. On 10/08/2023, Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir <sigrid@ftrv.se> wrote: > Alternative idea - more constructive: > > 1) produce a patch with the desired behavior > 2) send the patch to the ML > > If developers do not consider it useful, maybe someone else will, and > would want to apply it locally, which is very trivial. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-10 19:33 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir 2023-08-10 19:42 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2023-08-11 0:07 ` Stuart Morrow 2023-08-11 0:17 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir 2023-08-11 0:26 ` Stanley Lieber 1 sibling, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Stuart Morrow @ 2023-08-11 0:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front > Right, except Exit was discussed back and forth on both channels I > mentioned, while being developed and after, with many opinions > considered. We arrived at where we are now based on the result of > those discussions. It wasn't just one person secretly git/push'ing. "There was discussion" and "the matter is settled" are clearly not the same thing. The first part of that inequation is disputed by nobody. That Exit and Delete are conflatable was not brought up at all back then to my knowledge, so the current solution doesn't take the whole problem into account. I offer a concept that would solve a number of problems with a single technology: 1. The question of how to Exit - and the fact that it was discussed shows there is a question. 2. People would like to be able to alt-tab and stuff (in this concept it would just be tab - you don't need alt when you're already in a quasimode), but how do you do keyboard control when nesting exists. On other systems nestable multiplexers use the logical but *plain bad* method of escaping keyboard commands. This sets the standard for what to avoid. 3. Keeping menus short. Window management that requires a manual is an absolute non-starter if you ask me, but if we're just talking "extra" commands it's fine. Not sure if this belongs to 2 or 3, but I wouldn't mind seeing what happens and what usage patterns emerge when undo/redo (for win. mgmt operations) exists. Thousands of window managers and nobody ever seems to think of this? >> Exit sounds like it could mean to close, plus it's easier to find in >> the menu than Delete is. > > That is a speculation, not a fact. Maybe for you personally this is > confusing? Quoting the author of the video you linked: > > < nzm_> hey, I just saw on ML someone mentioned my presentation > - happy you found it but my error was oddly trivial and I'm not sure > what the issue is Not seeing in big picture is common here. If you read this far I think I have cleared it up. But this is what you get when you're good implementers but don't have a Uriel, someone who sees and/or cares about more than just the code. You get Mothra as the default in the same system where plumbing is up and running by default, you get riow in the release *before* screenlock has been made a 9P server that runs ahead of Rio and interposes all input on all input devices. >> Exit is something nobody wants unless they're advanced enough to know >> about hidden menu commands. > > That is a speculation. Several people wanted an Exit and it was > enough "wants" to get it in. The sentence continues past the word "nobody". Nobody who doesn't know to just go for the nearest word to "Close" (you don't keep looking for something once you think you've found it) needs (let alone wants) Exit. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-11 0:07 ` Stuart Morrow @ 2023-08-11 0:17 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir 2023-08-11 0:30 ` Jacob Moody 2023-08-11 0:26 ` Stanley Lieber 1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2023-08-11 0:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front You come off as very entitled and full of interesting opinions, I especially like this gem: > You get Mothra as the default in the same system where plumbing is up > and running by default, you get riow in the release *before* > screenlock has been made a 9P server that runs ahead of Rio and > interposes all input on all input devices. Sorry for people working on things that are more important to them, not to what your grand ideas are about, I guess. I'm out of this conversation. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-11 0:17 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2023-08-11 0:30 ` Jacob Moody 2023-08-11 12:31 ` Stuart Morrow 0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Jacob Moody @ 2023-08-11 0:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front On 8/10/23 19:17, Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir wrote: > You come off as very entitled and full of interesting opinions, I > especially like this gem: > >> You get Mothra as the default in the same system where plumbing is up >> and running by default, you get riow in the release *before* >> screenlock has been made a 9P server that runs ahead of Rio and >> interposes all input on all input devices. > Hear hear. I particularly like Stuart's part about refusing to write the code. Sorry Stuart, people are not writing code for you, no matter how much you bitch on the mailing list. I don't know how you got it in to your head that we are here to serve you or your opinions. If you think you know what the priorities should be, and how to best solve these problems then just like fucking do it. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-11 0:30 ` Jacob Moody @ 2023-08-11 12:31 ` Stuart Morrow 2023-08-11 13:12 ` Jacob Moody 2023-08-11 14:40 ` hiro 0 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Stuart Morrow @ 2023-08-11 12:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front > Hear hear. This is in response to it being laughable, "a gem", to comment on two pairs of mutually-incompatible things appearing in the same software distribution. I truly don't get why that's a hear-hear moment. > I particularly like Stuart's part about refusing to write > the code. I'm not a programmer (like the vast majority of people that ever used a Unix-like operating system), and to the extent that I _can_ be called one (is a hunt-and-peck typist "a typist"), I don't enjoy the process. And I'm not keen on touching what I think is one of the biggest programs. And quasimodal typing seems like it would be outside of what you can directly do with the libraries, kind of like if you wanted a stats(1) that draws its (massive)menu outside of its (usually small)window. > Sorry Stuart, people are not writing code for you, no matter how > much you bitch on the mailing list. I don't know how you got it in to your > head that we are here to serve you or your opinions. If you think you know > what the priorities should be, and how to best solve these problems then > just like fucking do it. Really not seeing how you got it in your head(s?) that that's in my head. I had an idea between posts(which is why it's not in the first post, or the subject line)(ditto for switching on $service) about an intellectually-satisfying design seeming to solve three known problems that don't obviously have anything to do with each other. Given that I know both how to close a window and how to exit rio, and don't have a need for directing focus of keyboard commands in a way that's elegant (because I don't use keyboard commands), I'm more interested in the idea than in having it. And now have I spend almost all of this thread dealing with either strawmen or misreadings. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-11 12:31 ` Stuart Morrow @ 2023-08-11 13:12 ` Jacob Moody 2023-08-11 20:38 ` Stuart Morrow 2023-08-11 14:40 ` hiro 1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Jacob Moody @ 2023-08-11 13:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front On 8/11/23 07:31, Stuart Morrow wrote: >> Hear hear. > > This is in response to it being laughable, "a gem", to comment on two > pairs of mutually-incompatible things appearing in the same software > distribution. > > I truly don't get why that's a hear-hear moment. I was agreeing that you were being an entitled. That's all. > >> I particularly like Stuart's part about refusing to write >> the code. > > I'm not a programmer (like the vast majority of people that ever used > a Unix-like operating system), and to the extent that I _can_ be > called one (is a hunt-and-peck typist "a typist"), I don't enjoy the > process. Then to be perfectly honest I don't care for your opinion on the system, how it works, or how it should work. Learn to do it or stop bitching. If you spent even a quarter of your time that you do bitching you would know enough to actually provide something useful. >> Sorry Stuart, people are not writing code for you, no matter how >> much you bitch on the mailing list. I don't know how you got it in to your >> head that we are here to serve you or your opinions. If you think you know >> what the priorities should be, and how to best solve these problems then >> just like fucking do it. > > Really not seeing how you got it in your head(s?) that that's in my head. Quite simple actually, you come in here demanding that we all bend to your idea of what the order of things should be (screenlock before riow, making it a fileserver, etc). > > And now have I spend almost all of this thread dealing with either > strawmen or misreadings. Here I am spending time on someone that will never provide us with anything of value and seems only interested in making noise in some vein attempt at convincing people that, without being a programmer, know how everyone else should program. If you just fucked off from the mailing list, nothing of value would be lost. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-11 13:12 ` Jacob Moody @ 2023-08-11 20:38 ` Stuart Morrow 2023-08-11 21:56 ` Jacob Moody 2023-08-11 22:11 ` hiro 0 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Stuart Morrow @ 2023-08-11 20:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front On 11/08/2023, Jacob Moody <moody@posixcafe.org> wrote: > If you just fucked off from the mailing list, nothing of value would > be lost. I won't talk to you then. I have no desire to be annoying you *plus* you've doubled down on claiming to know what my words mean better than I do. Demanding stuff isn't something people do in general, so if it isn't being said literally and you think you're seeing it, you might take a step back and attempt a more likely interpretation. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-11 20:38 ` Stuart Morrow @ 2023-08-11 21:56 ` Jacob Moody 2023-08-11 22:11 ` hiro 1 sibling, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Jacob Moody @ 2023-08-11 21:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front On 8/11/23 15:38, Stuart Morrow wrote: > On 11/08/2023, Jacob Moody <moody@posixcafe.org> wrote: >> If you just fucked off from the mailing list, nothing of value would >> be lost. > > I won't talk to you then. Good. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. > I have no desire to be annoying you *plus* > you've doubled down on claiming to know what my words mean better than > I do. I am not claiming to know your words better then you do, you type words and I have to read them and interpret them as part of reading. It seems like a common theme that no one else here is capable of understanding your genius. It seems like your "intelectually-satisfying" insights are wasted on us. I recommend you find some other group of programmers willing to do the work for you. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-11 20:38 ` Stuart Morrow 2023-08-11 21:56 ` Jacob Moody @ 2023-08-11 22:11 ` hiro 1 sibling, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: hiro @ 2023-08-11 22:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front > I won't talk to you then. I have no desire to be annoying you *plus* > you've doubled down on claiming to know what my words mean better than > I do. all anybody here can tell is what your words do *not* mean. I doubt moody managed to interprete too much sense into them, don't worry. > Demanding stuff isn't something people do in general Wrong. > so if it isn't > being said literally and you think you're seeing it, you might take a > step back and attempt a more likely interpretation. No. I have no fucking clue what you're seeing and by now I lost all interest to speculate in your favour. And about that YouTube link: Too long didn't watch. Please spare us from more non-technical content. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-11 12:31 ` Stuart Morrow 2023-08-11 13:12 ` Jacob Moody @ 2023-08-11 14:40 ` hiro 2023-08-11 15:10 ` Johnpaul Humphrey 2023-08-11 20:31 ` Stuart Morrow 1 sibling, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: hiro @ 2023-08-11 14:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front > I'm not a programmer (like the vast majority of people that ever used > a Unix-like operating system), and to the extent that I _can_ be > called one (is a hunt-and-peck typist "a typist"), I don't enjoy the > process. I'm not a programmer either, but I don't know why this would be relevant to unix systems, on which - as you mention - even typists can get work done easily with simple scripts, trivial tools, trivial input and output, pipes. What process are you complaining about, the process that one could have called you a programmer? What does the majority of people have to do say about our niche distributed network operating system programming environment? Why do you bring those up? Also what have these majorities ever done for US? or YOU? > And I'm not keen on touching what I think is one of the biggest programs. Some masochists will get around to it sooner or later. > And quasimodal typing seems like it would be outside of what you can > directly do with the libraries why? > Really not seeing how you got it in your head(s?) that that's in my head. It's all in our heads you say? nice continuation of the theme. > And now have I spend almost all of this thread dealing with either > strawmen or misreadings. please work on your grammar. it's impossible to tell if this is a question or exclamation. the rest was so unintelligible that I refrained from quoting it. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-11 14:40 ` hiro @ 2023-08-11 15:10 ` Johnpaul Humphrey 2023-08-11 15:19 ` hiro 2023-08-11 20:31 ` Stuart Morrow 1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Johnpaul Humphrey @ 2023-08-11 15:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 256 bytes --] At this point I am only reading for entertainment. Are you still talking about something, or are you talking about each other talking about you talking about something. Im in no position to tell you to stop, so pretend that's not what im trying to hint at [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 283 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-11 15:10 ` Johnpaul Humphrey @ 2023-08-11 15:19 ` hiro 0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: hiro @ 2023-08-11 15:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front > At this point I am only reading for entertainment. Are you still talking about something, or are you talking about each other talking about you talking about something. Im in no position to tell you to stop, so pretend that's not what im trying to hint at we do not accept abuse here and I reject the idea that this nonconsensual shit is entertaining to anybody. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-11 14:40 ` hiro 2023-08-11 15:10 ` Johnpaul Humphrey @ 2023-08-11 20:31 ` Stuart Morrow 1 sibling, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Stuart Morrow @ 2023-08-11 20:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front > What process are you complaining about, Say what you will but I am not just making terms up. https://youtu.be/Bew7Vum5piI?t=215 ^ not me >> And now have I spend almost all of this thread dealing with either >> strawmen or misreadings. > > please work on your grammar. it's impossible to tell if this is a > question or exclamation. the rest was so unintelligible that I > refrained from quoting it. Whoops, s/have I spend/I have spent. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-11 0:07 ` Stuart Morrow 2023-08-11 0:17 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2023-08-11 0:26 ` Stanley Lieber 1 sibling, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Stanley Lieber @ 2023-08-11 0:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front i think there is a lot of crosstalk and confusion here, and i for one am not even clear what anyone in this thread actually wants. probably just writing a complete spec for what you want and then posting it on the mailing list and then waiting for everyone to never ever mention it again would be more coherent than this current who's on first routine (see also: the long languishing proposal for a new bug tracker). another alternative would be implementing the thing you want and then posting diffs on the mailing list and waiting for it to get shot down. what doesn't help is oblique references to a dude who ran windows on his thinkpad for the last year of his life and isn't here to defend himself. there is room for throwing stones at a lot of stuff in plan 9, even before 9front came along. what's great about the past few years is so much experimentation and new stuff to argue about. the very best part is that, unlike the status quo when uriel was alive, all these folks are actually sharing code. we've come a long way. sl ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-10 15:04 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir 2023-08-10 18:24 ` Stuart Morrow @ 2023-08-10 18:29 ` Nathan Gorvett 2023-08-11 7:08 ` hiro 1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Nathan Gorvett @ 2023-08-10 18:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front Hey all! This was my presentation :D I'm happy y'all found it but I didn't do enough prep work imo. Unless I'm misunderstanding what's going on here. I had been away from 9front for a few months and just figured it'd be nice to showcase 9 to the lug. On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 11:41 AM Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir <sigrid@ftrv.se> wrote: > > > The discussion should have been should it be enabled at all. > > That's just, like, your opinion, man. > We have discussions on #cat-v and on grid. > Everybody is welcome to join in. > But no, better speculate elsewhere (reddit, discord, whatever) > then complain about artwork touching here, on the ML. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-10 18:29 ` Nathan Gorvett @ 2023-08-11 7:08 ` hiro 2023-08-11 12:32 ` Stuart Morrow 0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: hiro @ 2023-08-11 7:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front no problem Nathan. :P to all the others fighting with Stuart: please hold back for a second and please explain: what is this q to quit thing?! where do I type q to quit?! thank you from the audience. On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 2:34 AM Nathan Gorvett <nathan@nzm.ca> wrote: > > Hey all! > > This was my presentation :D I'm happy y'all found it but I didn't do > enough prep work imo. > > Unless I'm misunderstanding what's going on here. I had been away from > 9front for a few months and just figured it'd be nice to showcase 9 to > the lug. > > On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 11:41 AM Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir > <sigrid@ftrv.se> wrote: > > > > > The discussion should have been should it be enabled at all. > > > > That's just, like, your opinion, man. > > We have discussions on #cat-v and on grid. > > Everybody is welcome to join in. > > But no, better speculate elsewhere (reddit, discord, whatever) > > then complain about artwork touching here, on the ML. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-11 7:08 ` hiro @ 2023-08-11 12:32 ` Stuart Morrow 0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Stuart Morrow @ 2023-08-11 12:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front > what is this q to quit thing?! where do I type q to quit?! Stats, lens, the image viewers, page, and more. Paint and proof, too, if a command-line q counts. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-09 23:18 [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again Stuart Morrow 2023-08-09 23:41 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2023-08-10 0:08 ` Jacob Moody 2023-08-10 2:03 ` Stanley Lieber 1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Jacob Moody @ 2023-08-10 0:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front > On Aug 9, 2023, at 19:21, Stuart Morrow <morrow.stuart@gmail.com> wrote: > > Apparently "Exit" is confusable with "Delete". > Sounds like a skill issue. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again 2023-08-10 0:08 ` Jacob Moody @ 2023-08-10 2:03 ` Stanley Lieber 0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Stanley Lieber @ 2023-08-10 2:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front On August 9, 2023 8:08:16 PM EDT, Jacob Moody <moody@posixcafe.org> wrote: > > >> On Aug 9, 2023, at 19:21, Stuart Morrow <morrow.stuart@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Apparently "Exit" is confusable with "Delete". >> > >Sounds like a skill issue. > it has a skull and crossbones, wake up sheeple ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2023-08-11 22:19 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 29+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2023-08-09 23:18 [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again Stuart Morrow 2023-08-09 23:41 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir 2023-08-10 0:00 ` unobe 2023-08-10 11:35 ` Stuart Morrow 2023-08-10 14:13 ` qwx 2023-08-10 18:17 ` Stuart Morrow 2023-08-10 15:04 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir 2023-08-10 18:24 ` Stuart Morrow 2023-08-10 19:33 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir 2023-08-10 19:42 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir 2023-08-11 0:08 ` Stuart Morrow 2023-08-11 0:07 ` Stuart Morrow 2023-08-11 0:17 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir 2023-08-11 0:30 ` Jacob Moody 2023-08-11 12:31 ` Stuart Morrow 2023-08-11 13:12 ` Jacob Moody 2023-08-11 20:38 ` Stuart Morrow 2023-08-11 21:56 ` Jacob Moody 2023-08-11 22:11 ` hiro 2023-08-11 14:40 ` hiro 2023-08-11 15:10 ` Johnpaul Humphrey 2023-08-11 15:19 ` hiro 2023-08-11 20:31 ` Stuart Morrow 2023-08-11 0:26 ` Stanley Lieber 2023-08-10 18:29 ` Nathan Gorvett 2023-08-11 7:08 ` hiro 2023-08-11 12:32 ` Stuart Morrow 2023-08-10 0:08 ` Jacob Moody 2023-08-10 2:03 ` Stanley Lieber
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