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* [TUHS] Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS
@ 2023-01-25  1:46 Will Senn
  2023-01-25  7:45 ` [TUHS] " segaloco via TUHS
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Will Senn @ 2023-01-25  1:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: TUHS main list

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All,

If you think unix ends without x, just move along, nothing to see here. 
Otherwise, I thought I would share the subject of my latest post and a 
link with those of you interested in such things.

Recently, I've been tooling around trying to wrap my head around x 
windows and wanted to give programming it a shot at the xlib level... on 
my mac, if possible. So, I bought a copy of Adrian Nye's Xlib 
Programming Manual for Version 11 R4/R5, aka Volume One of The 
Definitive Guides to the X Window System, published, get this... 30+ 
years ago, in 1992 :) and started reading like a madman. As usual, this 
was an example of great technical writing from the prior millenium, 
something rarely found today.

Anyway, I hunted up the source code examples as published, unpacked 
them, did a few environmental things to my mac, and built my first xlib 
application from that source. A few tweaks to my XQuartz configuration 
and I was running the application in twm on my mac, with a root window.

To read about it and see it in all of its glory, check it out here:

https://decuser.github.io/operating-systems/mojave/x-windows/2023/01/24/x-windows-dev-on-mac.html

The same sort of setup works with Linux, FreeBSD, or my latest 
environment DragonFly BSD. It's not the environment that I find 
interesting, but rather the X Window System itself, but this is my way 
of entering into that world. If you are interested in running X Windows, 
not as an integrated system on your mac (where x apps run in aqua 
windows), but with a 'regular' window manager, and you haven't figured 
out how, this is one way.

On the provocateur front - is X part of unix? I mean this in oh so many 
nuanced ways, so read into it as you will. I would contend, torpedoes be 
damned, that it is :).

Will

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* [TUHS] Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS
  2023-01-25  1:46 [TUHS] Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS Will Senn
@ 2023-01-25  7:45 ` segaloco via TUHS
  2023-01-25  8:00   ` Lars Brinkhoff
  2023-01-25 16:41   ` Rich Salz
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: segaloco via TUHS @ 2023-01-25  7:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Will Senn; +Cc: TUHS main list

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I suspect even what with Wayland making the rounds, there'll probably be X around for a looooong time. My guess anyway. I just recently built an X setup from scratch on Linux, it wasn't too much of a pain save that the protocol headers have merged into the xorgproto package. I didn't realize this until I had already installed older versions of all the individual packages.

I was surprised to learn in the process that xterm is not distributed by XOrg, but by someone else. It even features in the default xdm session along with xconsole and xsm, so certainly considered a standard component of X, but distributed and maintained independently it seems.

Aa for the questions of the UNIX-ness of X, it started in Athena, which as I understand it was supposed to be relatively OS-agnostic distributed computing? In any case, the predecessor ran on a different OS, not sure how significant that is to the genesis of what would be called X or what OS it "started" on.

Aside from the ubiquitous X books (which I mean to add to my library...) USL also shipped a handful of books with SVR4 concerning both X and NeWS. I've only got the Xlib one but it seems to cover the basics pretty well. I'd be curious to compare it to the other set. One of these days I mean to round out that SVR4 documentation set.

There were probably materials in the SVR4.2 era as well but I haven't focused as much on those books. Dunno what if any documentation Novell then Caldera/SCO kept up with. I'd love a fresh round of print books, I much prefer paper for reference, but nowadays new tech material is most certainly second/third-hand rather than thoughtfully crafted by the team and those adjacent to whatever is being described. I love me a good primary source....

I've played with XQuartz a bit, mainly remote X from one of my Linux boxes. Kinda slow...but I did zero tuning so not sure what the expected performance of X-over-ssh is. In any case, given the ubiquity, I doubt we'll see X going anywhere soon, and even when it does eventually start to sunset, there'll probably be shims and wrappers for compatibility for a while longer. Plus, I don't know what the prospects are regarding Wayland and SVR4 derivs, but they're all happily running X still, and aren't necessarily getting any new large-scale development love, so likely will ride out with X.

- Matt G.
------- Original Message -------
On Tuesday, January 24th, 2023 at 5:46 PM, Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.com> wrote:

> All,
>
> If you think unix ends without x, just move along, nothing to see here. Otherwise, I thought I would share the subject of my latest post and a link with those of you interested in such things.
>
> Recently, I've been tooling around trying to wrap my head around x windows and wanted to give programming it a shot at the xlib level... on my mac, if possible. So, I bought a copy of Adrian Nye's Xlib Programming Manual for Version 11 R4/R5, aka Volume One of The Definitive Guides to the X Window System, published, get this... 30+ years ago, in 1992 :) and started reading like a madman. As usual, this was an example of great technical writing from the prior millenium, something rarely found today.
>
> Anyway, I hunted up the source code examples as published, unpacked them, did a few environmental things to my mac, and built my first xlib application from that source. A few tweaks to my XQuartz configuration and I was running the application in twm on my mac, with a root window.
>
> To read about it and see it in all of its glory, check it out here:
>
> https://decuser.github.io/operating-systems/mojave/x-windows/2023/01/24/x-windows-dev-on-mac.html
>
> The same sort of setup works with Linux, FreeBSD, or my latest environment DragonFly BSD. It's not the environment that I find interesting, but rather the X Window System itself, but this is my way of entering into that world. If you are interested in running X Windows, not as an integrated system on your mac (where x apps run in aqua windows), but with a 'regular' window manager, and you haven't figured out how, this is one way.
>
> On the provocateur front - is X part of unix? I mean this in oh so many nuanced ways, so read into it as you will. I would contend, torpedoes be damned, that it is :).
>
> Will

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* [TUHS] Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS
  2023-01-25  7:45 ` [TUHS] " segaloco via TUHS
@ 2023-01-25  8:00   ` Lars Brinkhoff
  2023-01-25 16:41   ` Rich Salz
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Lars Brinkhoff @ 2023-01-25  8:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: segaloco via TUHS; +Cc: segaloco

segaloco wrote:
> A[s] for the questions of the UNIX-ness of X, it started in Athena

It's my understanding it was started by Bob Scheifler of the CLU group.
It was soon picked up by Jim Gettys and Project Athena.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS
  2023-01-25  7:45 ` [TUHS] " segaloco via TUHS
  2023-01-25  8:00   ` Lars Brinkhoff
@ 2023-01-25 16:41   ` Rich Salz
  2023-01-25 19:53     ` Theodore Ts'o
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Rich Salz @ 2023-01-25 16:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: segaloco; +Cc: TUHS main list

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> Aa for the questions of the UNIX-ness of X, it started in Athena, which as
> I understand it was supposed to be relatively OS-agnostic distributed
> computing? In any case, the predecessor ran on a different OS, not sure how
> significant that is to the genesis of what would be called X or what OS it
> "started" on.
>

Athena was about scaling up Unix workstations. It was started with grants
from IBM and Digital. It was never OS-agnostic.

You can find a brief history of X at
https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/x-power-tools/9780596101954/ch01.html,
and the Wikipedia article on the X Window System is pretty good; reed the
"History" section.

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* [TUHS] Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS
  2023-01-25 16:41   ` Rich Salz
@ 2023-01-25 19:53     ` Theodore Ts'o
  2023-01-25 20:04       ` Dan Cross
  2023-01-26 13:17       ` Marc Donner
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Theodore Ts'o @ 2023-01-25 19:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Rich Salz; +Cc: segaloco, TUHS main list

On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 11:41:12AM -0500, Rich Salz wrote:
> > Aa for the questions of the UNIX-ness of X, it started in Athena, which as
> > I understand it was supposed to be relatively OS-agnostic distributed
> > computing? In any case, the predecessor ran on a different OS, not sure how
> > significant that is to the genesis of what would be called X or what OS it
> > "started" on.
> 
> Athena was about scaling up Unix workstations. It was started with grants
> from IBM and Digital. It was never OS-agnostic.

Well..... technically Athena was about computing in higher ed.  If you
go far back enough, at the very beginning, we used VAX 750's and IBM
PC/AT's running DOS.  As soon as the Microvax 2's and IBM PC/RT's came
in, about 2 or so years in, Project Athena switched to Unix
workstations, but in the earliest days (which would have been pre-X
Windows), Project Athena had not yet standardized on Unix or
workstations for that matter.

The VAX 750's were huge time-sharing systems that you could connect to
via VT-100's and VS-100 that were hard-wired to the VAX 750's, and
telnet from IBM PC/AT's.  The smaller clusters used PC/AT's because
they were more flexible as to which 750 you were connecting to;
otherwise, undergraduates had to go to the right terminal room in the
right part of campus to connect to the Vax 750 that you were assgined
to based on the starting character of your last name.  (And graduate
students initially didn't have access to Project Athena at all;
although if you were in EECS, LCS or the AI Lab you had access to
dedicated systems, of course.)

One of the perks for being hired as a student systems programmer back
then was that you got accounts on all of the Vax 750's, so you could
use any terminal room across campus.  :-) We then would either rlogin
to our "home" Vax 750, or we had scripts that would replicate our home
directories across the various 750's.

There was a brief, shining moment that we were standardized on
BSD-derived Unix systems, but then IBM turned down AOS (the "academic"
operating system), and we were forced to use AIX on the IBM RT's, with
all that this implied: SMIT, and other horrors.

"AIX: it *reminds* you of Unix...." was the saying at the time ---
although we tried not to say that when the IBM engineers assigned
Athena were in hearing range :-).  The one saving grace of the IBM
RT's was that they were three MIPS machines, while the Microvax's were
but a single MIPS, and that made a huge different if you were running
TeX or LaTeX.

Cheers,

						- Ted

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS
  2023-01-25 19:53     ` Theodore Ts'o
@ 2023-01-25 20:04       ` Dan Cross
  2023-01-25 20:23         ` Larry McVoy
  2023-01-27  4:49         ` Theodore Ts'o
  2023-01-26 13:17       ` Marc Donner
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Dan Cross @ 2023-01-25 20:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Theodore Ts'o; +Cc: segaloco, TUHS main list

On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 2:54 PM Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> wrote:
>[snip]
> The VAX 750's were huge time-sharing systems that you could connect to
> via VT-100's and VS-100 that were hard-wired to the VAX 750's, and
> telnet from IBM PC/AT's.  The smaller clusters used PC/AT's because
> they were more flexible as to which 750 you were connecting to;
> otherwise, undergraduates had to go to the right terminal room in the
> right part of campus to connect to the Vax 750 that you were assgined
> to based on the starting character of your last name.  (And graduate
> students initially didn't have access to Project Athena at all;
> although if you were in EECS, LCS or the AI Lab you had access to
> dedicated systems, of course.)

Was this before the introduction of DECserver terminal concentrators?

>[snip]
> There was a brief, shining moment that we were standardized on
> BSD-derived Unix systems, but then IBM turned down AOS (the "academic"
> operating system), and we were forced to use AIX on the IBM RT's, with
> all that this implied: SMIT, and other horrors.

Huh, I thought that AOS ran on all versions of the RT? I know they
dropped support for it when the power-based RS/6000s came out and
replaced the RT, though.

> "AIX: it *reminds* you of Unix...." was the saying at the time ---
> although we tried not to say that when the IBM engineers assigned
> Athena were in hearing range :-).  The one saving grace of the IBM
> RT's was that they were three MIPS machines, while the Microvax's were
> but a single MIPS, and that made a huge different if you were running
> TeX or LaTeX.

The RT was a weird duck, for sure. Compared to a SPARCstation it was
absurdly slow, but I guess compared to a uVAX perhaps not so much.

        - Dan C.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS
  2023-01-25 20:04       ` Dan Cross
@ 2023-01-25 20:23         ` Larry McVoy
  2023-01-25 20:27           ` Chet Ramey
  2023-01-27  4:49         ` Theodore Ts'o
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Larry McVoy @ 2023-01-25 20:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dan Cross; +Cc: segaloco, TUHS main list

On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 03:04:27PM -0500, Dan Cross wrote:
> The RT was a weird duck, for sure. Compared to a SPARCstation it was
> absurdly slow, but I guess compared to a uVAX perhaps not so much.

I think the RT predated the SPARC machines.  There were RT's running BSD
at UW-Madison when I was a grad student there (UW did something, maybe
the BSD port to RT?) and they were pretty nice.  Sun machines were still
68K, there were no SPARCs at UW-Madison at that time.  Yeah, looked it
up, they were released in 1987, we had RT machines early, perhaps before
the release in 1986 to do the port.
-- 
---
Larry McVoy           Retired to fishing          http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS
  2023-01-25 20:23         ` Larry McVoy
@ 2023-01-25 20:27           ` Chet Ramey
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Chet Ramey @ 2023-01-25 20:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Larry McVoy, Dan Cross; +Cc: segaloco, TUHS main list

On 1/25/23 3:23 PM, Larry McVoy wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 03:04:27PM -0500, Dan Cross wrote:
>> The RT was a weird duck, for sure. Compared to a SPARCstation it was
>> absurdly slow, but I guess compared to a uVAX perhaps not so much.
> 
> I think the RT predated the SPARC machines.  There were RT's running BSD
> at UW-Madison when I was a grad student there (UW did something, maybe
> the BSD port to RT?) and they were pretty nice.  

Didn't AOS use the UW BSD NFS port? I know it had NFS; we used them for a
long time and I had one in my home for years.

-- 
``The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.'' - Chaucer
		 ``Ars longa, vita brevis'' - Hippocrates
Chet Ramey, UTech, CWRU    chet@case.edu    http://tiswww.cwru.edu/~chet/


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS
  2023-01-25 19:53     ` Theodore Ts'o
  2023-01-25 20:04       ` Dan Cross
@ 2023-01-26 13:17       ` Marc Donner
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Marc Donner @ 2023-01-26 13:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Theodore Ts'o; +Cc: TUHS main list, segaloco

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A couple of years after Athena got going the Andrew project at CMU got
started.  That project focused primarily on early Sun workstations.  There
was some fooling around with some sort of Unix on the PC/AT, but the lack
of virtual memory support and the weakness of the networking cards for the
machine meant that we never saw them.

My memory of how X evolved is a bit confused, but there was a collaboration
between Athena and Andrew.  Each had built window systems independently.
My recollection is that Gosling, Rosenthal, and Sidebotham built the core
of the CMU one.  It introduced the separation between the display engine
(the ‘server’) and the application (the ‘client’) using an ancestor of the
X Protocol.

After a while a consolidated window system was agreed, using front end
ideas from the MIT W system and the CMU wm system and preserving the X
Protocol.  This produced a flexible architecture that allowed an
application to run anywhere and display in a window anywhere else.  It also
made networking support a must.

On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 2:54 PM Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 11:41:12AM -0500, Rich Salz wrote:
> > > Aa for the questions of the UNIX-ness of X, it started in Athena,
> which as
> > > I understand it was supposed to be relatively OS-agnostic distributed
> > > computing? In any case, the predecessor ran on a different OS, not
> sure how
> > > significant that is to the genesis of what would be called X or what
> OS it
> > > "started" on.
> >
> > Athena was about scaling up Unix workstations. It was started with grants
> > from IBM and Digital. It was never OS-agnostic.
>
> Well..... technically Athena was about computing in higher ed.  If you
> go far back enough, at the very beginning, we used VAX 750's and IBM
> PC/AT's running DOS.  As soon as the Microvax 2's and IBM PC/RT's came
> in, about 2 or so years in, Project Athena switched to Unix
> workstations, but in the earliest days (which would have been pre-X
> Windows), Project Athena had not yet standardized on Unix or
> workstations for that matter.
>
> The VAX 750's were huge time-sharing systems that you could connect to
> via VT-100's and VS-100 that were hard-wired to the VAX 750's, and
> telnet from IBM PC/AT's.  The smaller clusters used PC/AT's because
> they were more flexible as to which 750 you were connecting to;
> otherwise, undergraduates had to go to the right terminal room in the
> right part of campus to connect to the Vax 750 that you were assgined
> to based on the starting character of your last name.  (And graduate
> students initially didn't have access to Project Athena at all;
> although if you were in EECS, LCS or the AI Lab you had access to
> dedicated systems, of course.)
>
> One of the perks for being hired as a student systems programmer back
> then was that you got accounts on all of the Vax 750's, so you could
> use any terminal room across campus.  :-) We then would either rlogin
> to our "home" Vax 750, or we had scripts that would replicate our home
> directories across the various 750's.
>
> There was a brief, shining moment that we were standardized on
> BSD-derived Unix systems, but then IBM turned down AOS (the "academic"
> operating system), and we were forced to use AIX on the IBM RT's, with
> all that this implied: SMIT, and other horrors.
>
> "AIX: it *reminds* you of Unix...." was the saying at the time ---
> although we tried not to say that when the IBM engineers assigned
> Athena were in hearing range :-).  The one saving grace of the IBM
> RT's was that they were three MIPS machines, while the Microvax's were
> but a single MIPS, and that made a huge different if you were running
> TeX or LaTeX.
>
> Cheers,
>
>                                                 - Ted
>
-- 
=====
nygeek.net
mindthegapdialogs.com/home <https://www.mindthegapdialogs.com/home>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS
  2023-01-25 20:04       ` Dan Cross
  2023-01-25 20:23         ` Larry McVoy
@ 2023-01-27  4:49         ` Theodore Ts'o
  2023-01-27 18:05           ` Henry Mensch
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Theodore Ts'o @ 2023-01-27  4:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dan Cross; +Cc: segaloco, TUHS main list

On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 03:04:27PM -0500, Dan Cross wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 2:54 PM Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> wrote:
> >[snip]
> > The VAX 750's were huge time-sharing systems that you could connect to
> > via VT-100's and VS-100 that were hard-wired to the VAX 750's, and
> > telnet from IBM PC/AT's.  The smaller clusters used PC/AT's because
> > they were more flexible as to which 750 you were connecting to;
> > otherwise, undergraduates had to go to the right terminal room in the
> > right part of campus to connect to the Vax 750 that you were assgined
> > to based on the starting character of your last name.  (And graduate
> > students initially didn't have access to Project Athena at all;
> > although if you were in EECS, LCS or the AI Lab you had access to
> > dedicated systems, of course.)
> 
> Was this before the introduction of DECserver terminal concentrators?

I'm not sure; this would have been in the 1985--1987 time frame.

> >[snip]
> > There was a brief, shining moment that we were standardized on
> > BSD-derived Unix systems, but then IBM turned down AOS (the "academic"
> > operating system), and we were forced to use AIX on the IBM RT's, with
> > all that this implied: SMIT, and other horrors.
> 
> Huh, I thought that AOS ran on all versions of the RT? I know they
> dropped support for it when the power-based RS/6000s came out and
> replaced the RT, though.

Well, it perhaps would have been more accurate that IBM had decided to
that AIX was the future, and had defunded the AOS group.  While AOS
may have continued to work on the IBM RT's, the Powers That Be at IBM
had decided that AIX was the future, and when the company which is
sending you $5 million dollars a year (half in hardware and engineers'
salaries, and half in cold hard cash) wants you to switch to AIX, you
salute and reinstall AIX on all of the IBM RT's....

Later on we did get the RS/6000's, but at that point, most of us who
wanted something... that wasn't AIX, would try to get the VAXstation
3100 and later, the M38 variant.  My first staff workstation at MIT
was a VS-3100 named rt-11.mit.edu, and the VS-3100 M38 was
tsx-11.mit.edu, which became the first FTP site for Linux in North
America in 1991.  (I'm not sure how many people realized that the
primary ftp server for Linux was named after an obscure time-sharing
OS built on top of RT-11 for the PDP-11.  :-)

> The RT was a weird duck, for sure.

Well, there were the jokes that the RT was an overgrown typewriter
controller with pretensions.  :-)  And it's floating-point performance
was crap, but if you were only doing integer operations (e.g., running
TeX, running compiles), it wasn't half-bad if it wasn't running AIX.

> Compared to a SPARCstation it was
> absurdly slow, but I guess compared to a uVAX perhaps not so much.

Alas, Sun wasn't one of Project Athena's sponsors; just IBM and DEC.

It also didn't help that our contemporaneous uVax's were mostly the VS
II/RC's, with the the epoxyed backplane which limited the amount of
amount of memory that could be put in them....

       	  	      	       	      - Ted

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS
  2023-01-27  4:49         ` Theodore Ts'o
@ 2023-01-27 18:05           ` Henry Mensch
  2023-01-27 18:24             ` Charles H Sauer (he/him)
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Henry Mensch @ 2023-01-27 18:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 'Theodore Ts'o', 'Dan Cross'
  Cc: 'segaloco', 'TUHS main list'

This was certainly true before 1986; I joined Project Athena in April of
1986 and this was quite well established by then. 

And it was no real surprise when IBM killed off AOS. AIX was already
"product" and there was no commercially installed base for RT/PC systems
worth mentioning ... (part of my job at the time was to identify and
document the differences)

-----Original Message-----
From: Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> 
Sent: 26 January 2023 23:50
To: Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com>
Cc: segaloco <segaloco@protonmail.com>; TUHS main list <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: [TUHS] Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS

On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 03:04:27PM -0500, Dan Cross wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 2:54 PM Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> wrote:
> >[snip]
> > otherwise, undergraduates had to go to the right terminal room 
> >in the  right part of campus to connect to the Vax 750 that you were 
> >assgined  to based on the starting character of your last name. 

I'm not sure; this would have been in the 1985--1987 time frame.
-snip-
Well, it perhaps would have been more accurate that IBM had decided to that
AIX was the future, and had defunded the AOS group.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS
  2023-01-27 18:05           ` Henry Mensch
@ 2023-01-27 18:24             ` Charles H Sauer (he/him)
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Charles H Sauer (he/him) @ 2023-01-27 18:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

The decision to end AOS was made sometime in 1H88 and the group of us 
that defined the "convergence" was formed. Our work must have been 
largely complete when I presented our plans at Berkeley 11/88 at a 
workshop that coincided with the Morris worm. I assume we submitted the 
Uniforum 89 paper 
(https://technologists.com/sauer/Convergence_of_AIX_and_4.3BSD.pdf) 
about then, as well.

On 1/27/2023 12:05 PM, Henry Mensch wrote:
> This was certainly true before 1986; I joined Project Athena in April of
> 1986 and this was quite well established by then.
> 
> And it was no real surprise when IBM killed off AOS. AIX was already
> "product" and there was no commercially installed base for RT/PC systems
> worth mentioning ... (part of my job at the time was to identify and
> document the differences)
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>
> Sent: 26 January 2023 23:50
> To: Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com>
> Cc: segaloco <segaloco@protonmail.com>; TUHS main list <tuhs@tuhs.org>
> Subject: [TUHS] Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS
> 
> On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 03:04:27PM -0500, Dan Cross wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 2:54 PM Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> wrote:
>>> [snip]
>>> otherwise, undergraduates had to go to the right terminal room
>>> in the  right part of campus to connect to the Vax 750 that you were
>>> assgined  to based on the starting character of your last name.
> 
> I'm not sure; this would have been in the 1985--1987 time frame.
> -snip-
> Well, it perhaps would have been more accurate that IBM had decided to that
> AIX was the future, and had defunded the AOS group.
> 
> 

-- 
voice: +1.512.784.7526       e-mail: sauer@technologists.com
fax: +1.512.346.5240         Web: https://technologists.com/sauer/
Facebook/Google/Twitter: CharlesHSauer

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS
  2023-01-26 10:56     ` Ralph Corderoy
@ 2023-01-26 15:28       ` josh
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: josh @ 2023-01-26 15:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ralph Corderoy; +Cc: tuhs

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 475 bytes --]

On Thursday, January 26, 2023, Ralph Corderoy <ralph@inputplus.co.uk> wrote:

>
> Rob Pike wrote of magnetic tapes he had which could no longer be read.
> The coating had failed off IIRC.  I tried to find the text but failed.
> Perhaps it was on one of those Google+, Posterous, ... transient things.
>

Hi Ralph, I think you’re referring to this blog post (which I’ve also
previously struggled to find):
https://commandcenter.blogspot.com/2014/08/prints.html

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2023-01-27 18:24 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 13+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2023-01-25  1:46 [TUHS] Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS Will Senn
2023-01-25  7:45 ` [TUHS] " segaloco via TUHS
2023-01-25  8:00   ` Lars Brinkhoff
2023-01-25 16:41   ` Rich Salz
2023-01-25 19:53     ` Theodore Ts'o
2023-01-25 20:04       ` Dan Cross
2023-01-25 20:23         ` Larry McVoy
2023-01-25 20:27           ` Chet Ramey
2023-01-27  4:49         ` Theodore Ts'o
2023-01-27 18:05           ` Henry Mensch
2023-01-27 18:24             ` Charles H Sauer (he/him)
2023-01-26 13:17       ` Marc Donner
2023-01-25 20:38 Noel Chiappa
2023-01-25 21:25 ` Clem Cole
2023-01-26  6:30   ` Lars Brinkhoff
2023-01-26 10:56     ` Ralph Corderoy
2023-01-26 15:28       ` [TUHS] " josh

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