[OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Xavier Maillard]

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Hi,

I was taking my shower (yes I do sometimes :)), when something weird
appeared in my mind : what does Gnus means exactly ? What the 's'
meaning ? 

I know this is strange but just for curiosity, does anybody know ?

Thx and sorry to bother about that ;)

zeDek
-- 
http://www.gnusfr.org -- French Gnus user site

Anti-war disclaimer:
	"Bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity"

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Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> writes:

> I was taking my shower (yes I do sometimes :)), when something weird
> appeared in my mind : what does Gnus means exactly ? What the 's'
> meaning ? 

I think it's a phonetic pun.  "Gnu" (when referring to the animal) is
usually pronounced "new", so "GNUS" is "news", which is kinda apt for
a news reader.

I pronounce it with a hard "g", though, which makes the pun kinda
disappear into the ether. 

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Richard Hoskins]

Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> writes:

> What the 's' meaning ?

"Gnus" and "news" are homophones in english.  Plus, GNU is Not Unix.

-- 
Lift me down, so I can make the Earth tremble.
                                --Bucky Katt

Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Karl Kleinpaste]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> I think it's a phonetic pun.

If you dredge very old versions of GNUS (e.g. 2.x), you will find
Masanobu Umeda's comments on pronunciation in the info files.
Roughly, "nooss," as I recall.

Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Lloyd Zusman]

Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> writes:

> Hi,
>
> I was taking my shower (yes I do sometimes :)), when something weird
> appeared in my mind : what does Gnus means exactly ? What the 's'
> meaning ? 
>
> I know this is strange but just for curiosity, does anybody know ?
>
> Thx and sorry to bother about that ;)
>
> zeDek

In English, the word "gnu" (meaning "wildebeest") can be pronounced with
a silent "g", so that it sounds exactly the same as "new".  Therefore,
using that convention, "Gnus" would be pronounced like "news".  Since
Gnus was originally created as a usenet newsreader, that's a very
appropriate name.

And since it is developed to run under GNU Emacs, it very nicely
contains the name GNU.

And I'm sure you know what the GNU acronym stands for.



> -- 
> http://www.gnusfr.org -- French Gnus user site
>
> Anti-war disclaimer:
> 	"Bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity"

-- 
 Lloyd Zusman
 ljz@asfast.com

Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Jesper Harder]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> writes:
>
>> I was taking my shower (yes I do sometimes :)), when something weird
>> appeared in my mind : what does Gnus means exactly ? What the 's'
>> meaning ? 
>
> I think it's a phonetic pun.  "Gnu" (when referring to the animal) is
> usually pronounced "new", so "GNUS" is "news", which is kinda apt for
> a news reader.

Does anyone remember "The Great Space Coaster"?  A children's
television show with puppets from the 80's.  

It featured characters like Eddie the Elephant, Goriddle Gorilla, and
... Gary Gnu, who was a news presenter -- he'd always say stuff like:
"No g-news is good g-news". [1]

[1] <http://www.wirtznet.net/transplant/gnu1.mp3> (31 KB).

Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Raymond Scholz]

* Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote:

> I pronounce it with a hard "g", though, which makes the pun kinda
> disappear into the ether. 

We need geek stuff like
<URL:http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/SillySounds/>

Cheers, Ray
-- 
/* Halley */ (Halley's comment.)

Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Kai Großjohann]

Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> writes:

> In English, the word "gnu" (meaning "wildebeest") can be pronounced with
> a silent "g", so that it sounds exactly the same as "new".  Therefore,
> using that convention, "Gnus" would be pronounced like "news".  Since
> Gnus was originally created as a usenet newsreader, that's a very
> appropriate name.

I understand that the G is not silent, says Lars.
-- 
file-error; Data: (Opening input file no such file or directory ~/.signature)

Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Lloyd Zusman]

kai.grossjohann@gmx.net (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> writes:
>
>> In English, the word "gnu" (meaning "wildebeest") can be pronounced with
>> a silent "g", so that it sounds exactly the same as "new".  Therefore,
>> using that convention, "Gnus" would be pronounced like "news".  Since
>> Gnus was originally created as a usenet newsreader, that's a very
>> appropriate name.
>
> I understand that the G is not silent, says Lars.

Check "gnu" in an English dictionary.  I looked in several, and in all
cases, the "g" is silent.  The first pronunciation is "noo", and the
second one is "nyoo" (as if the "gn" were reversed to "ng", and the "g"
turned into a glide).

Of course, this is in reference to the wildebeest, not the Free Software
Foundation's acronym.

And while Lars is certainly an authority on the pronunciation of "Gnus",
I recall when it first came out (even before Umeda Masanobu took over
its development), and back then, the pronunciation of "Gnu" seemed to
alternate pretty much on a 50-50 basis between a silent and a hard "g"
(those were the days when the only gnu thing out there was gnu emacs).

I believe that the "official" pronunciation of the FSF acronym had a
hard "g", but that didn't stop thousands of people from pronouncing that
"g" silently back then.

But the original question had to do with the reason for the trailing "s"
in the name "Gnus".  And as we've discussed, it was to make the word a
rhyme (or a homonym, if you subscribe to the silent-g-Gnu-acronym
theory) for the word "news".

-- 
 Lloyd Zusman
 ljz@asfast.com

Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Xavier Maillard]

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On  3 mai 2003, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:

>  Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> writes:
>  
> >  I was taking my shower (yes I do sometimes :)), when something
> >  weird appeared in my mind : what does Gnus means exactly ? What the
> >  's' meaning ?
>  
>  I think it's a phonetic pun.  "Gnu" (when referring to the animal) is
>  usually pronounced "new", so "GNUS" is "news", which is kinda apt for
>  a news reader.

Sure ;)
  
>  I pronounce it with a hard "g", though, which makes the pun kinda
>  disappear into the ether. 

Same here. I used to pronounce the 'g' cuz' of the GNU acronym :)

zeDek
-- 
http://www.gnusfr.org -- French Gnus user site

Anti-war disclaimer:
	"Bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity"

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Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Xavier Maillard]

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On  4 mai 2003, Raymond Scholz wrote:

* Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote:
>  
> >  I pronounce it with a hard "g", though, which makes the pun kinda
> >  disappear into the ether. 
>  
>  We need geek stuff like
>  <URL:http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/SillySounds/>

Definetely :)   

zeDek
-- 
http://www.gnusfr.org -- French Gnus user site

Anti-war disclaimer:
	"Bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity"

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Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Xavier Maillard]

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On 3 mai 2003, Lloyd Zusman spake thusly:

>  Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> writes:
>  
> >  Hi,
> >  
> >  I was taking my shower (yes I do sometimes :)), when something
> >  weird appeared in my mind : what does Gnus means exactly ? What the
> >  's' meaning ?
> >  
> >  I know this is strange but just for curiosity, does anybody know ?
> >  
> >  Thx and sorry to bother about that ;)
> >  
> >  zeDek
>  
>  In English, the word "gnu" (meaning "wildebeest") can be pronounced
>  with a silent "g", so that it sounds exactly the same as "new".

Yep got it now ;) 

>  Therefore, using that convention, "Gnus" would be pronounced like
>  "news".  Since Gnus was originally created as a usenet newsreader,
>  that's a very appropriate name.

Knowing how to pronounce it helps a lot :)
  
>  And since it is developed to run under GNU Emacs, it very nicely
>  contains the name GNU.
>  
>  And I'm sure you know what the GNU acronym stands for.

;)
  
zeDek
-- 
http://www.gnusfr.org -- French Gnus user site

Anti-war disclaimer:
	"Bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity"

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Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Xavier Maillard]

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On 4 mai 2003, Lloyd Zusman outgrape:

>  kai.grossjohann@gmx.net (Kai Großjohann) writes:
>  
> >  Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> writes:
> >  
> > >  In English, the word "gnu" (meaning "wildebeest") can be
> > >  pronounced with a silent "g", so that it sounds exactly the same
> > >  as "new".  Therefore, using that convention, "Gnus" would be
> > >  pronounced like "news".  Since Gnus was originally created as a
> > >  usenet newsreader, that's a very appropriate name.
> >  
> >  I understand that the G is not silent, says Lars.
>  
>  Check "gnu" in an English dictionary.  I looked in several, and in
>  all cases, the "g" is silent.  The first pronunciation is "noo", and
>  the second one is "nyoo" (as if the "gn" were reversed to "ng", and
>  the "g" turned into a glide).
>  
>  Of course, this is in reference to the wildebeest, not the Free
>  Software Foundation's acronym.
>  
>  And while Lars is certainly an authority on the pronunciation of
>  "Gnus", I recall when it first came out (even before Umeda Masanobu
>  took over its development), and back then, the pronunciation of "Gnu"
>  seemed to alternate pretty much on a 50-50 basis between a silent and
>  a hard "g" (those were the days when the only gnu thing out there was
>  gnu emacs).
>  
>  I believe that the "official" pronunciation of the FSF acronym had a
>  hard "g", but that didn't stop thousands of people from pronouncing
>  that "g" silently back then.
>  
>  But the original question had to do with the reason for the trailing
>  "s" in the name "Gnus".  And as we've discussed, it was to make the
>  word a rhyme (or a homonym, if you subscribe to the
>  silent-g-Gnu-acronym theory) for the word "news".

Thanx Mr Cappelo :)

zeDek
-- 
http://www.gnusfr.org -- French Gnus user site

Anti-war disclaimer:
	"Bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity"

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Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Glenn Morris]

Jesper Harder wrote:

> Does anyone remember "The Great Space Coaster"?  A children's
> television show with puppets from the 80's.  

Afraid not, but just to drag things even further off-topic, I am
compelled to pronounce "gnu" (the animal) with a hard "g", thanks to
early exposure to Flanders and Swann's sublime "The Gnu Song", which
stresses "g"s all over the place...

http://timothyplatypus.tripod.com/FaS/hat_gnu.html

Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Randal L. Schwartz]

>>>>> "Xavier" == Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> writes:

Xavier> I was taking my shower (yes I do sometimes :)), when something weird
Xavier> appeared in my mind : what does Gnus means exactly ?

As for the Gnus in "gnus.org", it means

        "Gnus Network User Services"

See the whois.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> writes:

> And while Lars is certainly an authority on the pronunciation of "Gnus",
> I recall when it first came out (even before Umeda Masanobu took over
> its development), 

Oh!  I've always thought that Masanobu Umeda was the original
author.  Who was it?

(Gee.  You'd have thought somebody would have mentioned this before
now!  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Oystein Viggen]

* [Xavier Maillard] 

> On  4 mai 2003, Raymond Scholz wrote:
>>  
>>  We need geek stuff like
>>  <URL:http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/SillySounds/>
>
> Definetely :)   

..of course with norwegian.au and english.au.

Not to mention that this would help help non-Norwegians learn how the
hell to pronounce "Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen"  :)

Øystein
-- 
This message was generated by a flock of happy penguins.

Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Lloyd Zusman]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> writes:
>
>> And while Lars is certainly an authority on the pronunciation of "Gnus",
>> I recall when it first came out (even before Umeda Masanobu took over
>> its development), 
>
> Oh!  I've always thought that Masanobu Umeda was the original
> author.  Who was it?

I can't for the life of me remember.  That was back in the Stone Age
(the 1980's).

All I remember is that gnus got to a certain point and then just sort of
stopped being developed.  After a while, Umeda Masanobu came along and
took the reins.

Now I'm off to do some digging in the usenet archives ...


> (Gee.  You'd have thought somebody would have mentioned this before
> now!  :-)

-- 
 Lloyd Zusman
 ljz@asfast.com

Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Robert Marshall]

On Sun, 04 May 2003, Lloyd Zusman wrote:

> kai.grossjohann@gmx.net (Kai Großjohann) writes:
> 
>> Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> writes:
>>
>>> In English, the word "gnu" (meaning "wildebeest") can be
>>> pronounced with a silent "g", so that it sounds exactly the same
>>> as "new".  Therefore, using that convention, "Gnus" would be
>>> pronounced like "news".  Since Gnus was originally created as a
>>> usenet newsreader, that's a very appropriate name.
>>
>> I understand that the G is not silent, says Lars.
> 
> Check "gnu" in an English dictionary.  I looked in several, and in
> all cases, the "g" is silent.  The first pronunciation is "noo", and
> the second one is "nyoo" (as if the "gn" were reversed to "ng", and
> the "g" turned into a glide).
> 

Not in my (english) English dictionary it isn't - well it has 'nu or
(humorous) g'nu'! I've always pronounced it in the second form but
maybe there was too much of an influence of Flanders and Swann in my
formative years. Maybe it's a transatlantic problem?

Robert 
-- 
Take me to the world
A world that smiles
With streets instead of aisles

Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Randal L. Schwartz]

>>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

Lars> Oh!  I've always thought that Masanobu Umeda was the original
Lars> author.  Who was it?

Lars> (Gee.  You'd have thought somebody would have mentioned this before
Lars> now!  :-)

Isn't it in the manual or the changelog? :)

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Randal L. Schwartz]

>>>>> "Randal" == Randal L Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com> writes:

>>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
Lars> Oh!  I've always thought that Masanobu Umeda was the original
Lars> author.  Who was it?

Lars> (Gee.  You'd have thought somebody would have mentioned this before
Lars> now!  :-)

Randal> Isn't it in the manual or the changelog? :)

It looks like Masanobu Umeda is the original author according to
http://flex.ee.uec.ac.jp/texi/gnus/gnus_1.html, and acknowldeges no
significant prior version according to
<http://flex.ee.uec.ac.jp/texi/gnus/gnus_3.html>.

Maybe there's some confusion with a slightly older package called
"Gnews", which I was using in 1982 (and also contributed some elisp
for), authored by weemba.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Lloyd Zusman]

Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> writes:

> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
>>
>> [ ... ]
>>
>> Oh!  I've always thought that Masanobu Umeda was the original
>> author.  Who was it?
>
> I can't for the life of me remember.  That was back in the Stone Age
> (the 1980's).
>
> All I remember is that gnus got to a certain point and then just sort of
> stopped being developed.  After a while, Umeda Masanobu came along and
> took the reins.
>
> Now I'm off to do some digging in the usenet archives ...

Can anyone point me to some ancient comp.sources.misc archives, from
1985-1990?  Google's news archives don't seem to go back that far.  The
first incarnation of gnus showed up in that time frame, and I'm sure
that I can find one or more pre-Umeda-Masanobu versions there.

-- 
 Lloyd Zusman
 ljz@asfast.com

Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Lloyd Zusman]

merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) writes:

>>>>>> "Randal" == Randal L Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com> writes:
>
>>>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> Lars> Oh!  I've always thought that Masanobu Umeda was the original
> Lars> author.  Who was it?
>
> Lars> (Gee.  You'd have thought somebody would have mentioned this before
> Lars> now!  :-)
>
> Randal> Isn't it in the manual or the changelog? :)
>
> It looks like Masanobu Umeda is the original author according to
> http://flex.ee.uec.ac.jp/texi/gnus/gnus_1.html, and acknowldeges no
> significant prior version according to
> <http://flex.ee.uec.ac.jp/texi/gnus/gnus_3.html>.
>
> Maybe there's some confusion with a slightly older package called
> "Gnews", which I was using in 1982 (and also contributed some elisp
> for), authored by weemba.

I believe that there were both a "Gnus" and a "Gnews" before Masanubo
Umeda stepped in.  If I'm not mistaken, his first version was 2.x, and
it was built upon a mostly dormant "Gnus" tree from before that.



-- 
 Lloyd Zusman
 ljz@asfast.com

Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Jesper Harder]

merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) writes:

> Maybe there's some confusion with a slightly older package called
> "Gnews", which I was using in 1982 (and also contributed some elisp
> for), authored by weemba.

Interesting.  The following message seems to suggest that GNUS was
temporarily called "GNU RRN" before it was renamed to GNUS:

,----
| From: conor@Helens.STANFORD.EDU (conor)
| Newsgroups: comp.emacs
| Subject: Re: Reading usenet inside Emacs
| Message-ID: <@Helens.STANFORD.EDU>
| Date: 27 Jan 88 21:30:15 GMT
| References: <7651@alice.UUCP> <UMERIN.RRN23@photon.stars.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET>
| Reply-To: conor@dutch-goose.stanford.edu
| Keywords: gnews
| Summary: "gnews.el" is taken :-)
| 
| In message <UMERIN.RRN23@photon.stars.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET>, umerin@photon.stars.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET (Masanobu UMEDA) says:
| >It is now temporary called GNU RRN, but I haven't
| >decided its name yet.
| 
| I have a dired-style news reader called "gnews.el" so please
| don't grab that!
| 
| Conor Rafferty                  conor@su-glacier.arpa
| 231A Applied Electronics Lab.   conor@su-sierra.arpa
| Stanford University Ca.94305	decwrl!glacier!conor
| (415)497-1515
`----

Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Frank Schmitt]

Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> writes:

> merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) writes:
>
> I believe that there were both a "Gnus" and a "Gnews" before Masanubo
> Umeda stepped in.  If I'm not mistaken, his first version was 2.x, and
> it was built upon a mostly dormant "Gnus" tree from before that.

I think his name is Masanobu Umeda, there are quite some hits when
googeling for his name, so perhaps we should just ask him?

-- 
WANTED: A nice signature
REWARD: none

Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Lloyd Zusman]

Frank Schmitt <usereplyto@Frank-Schmitt.net> writes:

> Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> writes:
>
>> merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) writes:
>>
>> I believe that there were both a "Gnus" and a "Gnews" before Masanubo
>> Umeda stepped in.  If I'm not mistaken, his first version was 2.x, and
>> it was built upon a mostly dormant "Gnus" tree from before that.
>
> I think his name is Masanobu Umeda, there are quite some hits when
> googeling for his name, so perhaps we should just ask him?

Yup ... I was thinking the same thing, and I've already started writing
him a polite query about this (with his name spelled correctly!).  I'm
going to send it off in a few minutes, unless someone objects strongly.

-- 
 Lloyd Zusman
 ljz@asfast.com

Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Lloyd Zusman]

Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> writes:

> Frank Schmitt <usereplyto@Frank-Schmitt.net> writes:
>
>> Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> writes:
>>
>>> merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) writes:
>>>
>>> I believe that there were both a "Gnus" and a "Gnews" before Masanubo
>>> Umeda stepped in.  If I'm not mistaken, his first version was 2.x, and
>>> it was built upon a mostly dormant "Gnus" tree from before that.
>>
>> I think his name is Masanobu Umeda, there are quite some hits when
>> googeling for his name, so perhaps we should just ask him?
>
> Yup ... I was thinking the same thing, and I've already started writing
> him a polite query about this (with his name spelled correctly!).  I'm
> going to send it off in a few minutes, unless someone objects strongly.

Well, not hearing any objections, I sent it off.  It was very
respectful.  I hope that it reaches him.

Stay tuned ...

-- 
 Lloyd Zusman
 ljz@asfast.com

The early gnus shars (was: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS)

[Lloyd Zusman]

I found version 2.0 of gnus, posted by Masanobu Umeda
(umerin@flab.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET) to comp.emacs on Feb. 1, 2988.  This
looks like it might be the first public posting.  The archives don't go
back much earlier that this, and so I don't know if there was a 1.x
version that was released earlier.

This seems to confirm that my memory is incorrect and that Masanobu
Umeda is indeed the original author.

But also, since I sent him an email, perhaps he will reply to personally
drive the final nail into the coffin of my claim.

The entire gnus 2.0 release fit into two shars in two email messages.
This software is a fascinating piece of history, and so I'm wondering if
anyone would be interested in my posting it here.

I've tarred and gzipped these files into a bundle that takes up a total
of 24,340 bytes.  Is that too large for me to post here as an
attachment?  If so, I'll put it on a web page somewhere.

-- 
 Lloyd Zusman
 ljz@asfast.com

Re: The early gnus shars

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> writes:

> I've tarred and gzipped these files into a bundle that takes up a total
> of 24,340 bytes.  Is that too large for me to post here as an
> attachment?  If so, I'll put it on a web page somewhere.

I'd be very interested in putting it up at gnus.org.  Could you mail
it to me?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: The early gnus shars (was: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS)

[Lloyd Zusman]

Correcction:  of course, that's 1988, not 2988 ... although I do feel
like I've gone through a time warp. :)

Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> writes:

> I found version 2.0 of gnus, posted by Masanobu Umeda
> (umerin@flab.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET) to comp.emacs on Feb. 1, 2988.  This
> looks like it might be the first public posting.  The archives don't go
> back much earlier that this, and so I don't know if there was a 1.x
> version that was released earlier.
>
> This seems to confirm that my memory is incorrect and that Masanobu
> Umeda is indeed the original author.
>
> But also, since I sent him an email, perhaps he will reply to personally
> drive the final nail into the coffin of my claim.
>
> The entire gnus 2.0 release fit into two shars in two email messages.
> This software is a fascinating piece of history, and so I'm wondering if
> anyone would be interested in my posting it here.
>
> I've tarred and gzipped these files into a bundle that takes up a total
> of 24,340 bytes.  Is that too large for me to post here as an
> attachment?  If so, I'll put it on a web page somewhere.
>
> -- 
>  Lloyd Zusman
>  ljz@asfast.com

-- 
 Lloyd Zusman
 ljz@asfast.com

Re: The early gnus shars

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> I'd be very interested in putting it up at gnus.org.  Could you mail
> it to me?

And I've now got it, and I've put it at
<URL: http://quimby.gnus.org/gnus/2.0/>.  Whee!  It's 3000 lines!

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: The early gnus shars

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> And I've now got it, and I've put it at
> <URL: http://quimby.gnus.org/gnus/2.0/>.  Whee!  It's 3000 lines!

Looking over the code, I find it fascinating just how much has
survived.  I mean, this is from 1988, and here we are, 15 years later,
and Gnus still has the same basic structure, and (probably) look and
feel.

I wonder how much work it would be to get Gnus 2.0 up and running on
modern Emacsen -- just to see what it looks like in action.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: The early gnus shars

[Karl Kleinpaste]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> I wonder how much work it would be to get Gnus 2.0 up and running on
> modern Emacsen -- just to see what it looks like in action.

You need rnews.el and rnewspost.el -- I don't know if they're part of
any Emacs or XEmacs distribution any more, though I've got ancient
copies of my own from somewhere.

No scorefiles, no frames, limited font switching (pretty much only the
b\bba\bac\bck\bks\bsp\bpa\bac\bce\be _\bk_\bi_\bn_\bd), no daemons, only one server, no mail support at all,
no smileys.

It doesn't know about MODE READER, which caused me a moment's
consternation.

Possibly the best part about it, in a backhandedly humorous mode:

It auto-subscribes every possible newsgroup.  Forgive Masanobu Umeda
for his shortsightedness in this regard: At the time of GNUS 2.x, B
News 2.11.17 was the current server software, which still used a
maximum group count in defs.h of 512.  My usual server today has
(only) 12,000 groups.  It took XEmacs 21.4, running this old GNUS, 58
seconds just to do the start-up auto-subscriptions, followed by
another 54 seconds of "checking new news" before it displayed the
*Newsgroup* (today's *Group*) buffer, on this AMD 1.2GHz Linux
machine.

Awesome.

--karl

Re: The early gnus shars

[Lloyd Zusman]

Karl Kleinpaste <k@charcoal.com> writes:

> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
>> I wonder how much work it would be to get Gnus 2.0 up and running on
>> modern Emacsen -- just to see what it looks like in action.
>
> [ ... ]
>
> Possibly the best part about it, in a backhandedly humorous mode:
>
> It auto-subscribes every possible newsgroup.  Forgive Masanobu Umeda
> for his shortsightedness in this regard: At the time of GNUS 2.x, B
> News 2.11.17 was the current server software, which still used a
> maximum group count in defs.h of 512.  My usual server today has
> (only) 12,000 groups.  It took XEmacs 21.4, running this old GNUS, 58
> seconds just to do the start-up auto-subscriptions, followed by
> another 54 seconds of "checking new news" before it displayed the
> *Newsgroup* (today's *Group*) buffer, on this AMD 1.2GHz Linux
> machine.
>
> Awesome.
>
> --karl

So tahat's around 2 minutes startup time for 12,000 groups.  If we went
with the B News maximum of 512, that's a factor of 24, or only 5 seconds
for startup.  That doesn't seem bad, until you remember how slow the
machines were back then.

I wonder if we'll ever find a 1.x or even 0.x version of gnus to
play with.

So far, I haven't gotten a reply from Masanobu ... if he does get back
to me, I'm going to ask him if he knows of any earlier versions.


-- 
 Lloyd Zusman
 ljz@asfast.com

Re: The early gnus shars

[Bill White]

On Sun May 04 2003 at 21:06, Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> said:

> So tahat's around 2 minutes startup time for 12,000 groups.  If we went
> with the B News maximum of 512, that's a factor of 24, or only 5 seconds
> for startup.  That doesn't seem bad, until you remember how slow the
> machines were back then.
>
> I wonder if we'll ever find a 1.x or even 0.x version of gnus to
> play with.
>
> So far, I haven't gotten a reply from Masanobu ... if he does get back
> to me, I'm going to ask him if he knows of any earlier versions.

Someone should write a book, or at least a long texinfo file.

Cheers -

bw
-- 
Bill White . billw@wolfram.com . http://members.wri.com/billw
"No ma'am, we're musicians."

Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[William M. Perry]

Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> writes:

> kai.grossjohann@gmx.net (Kai Großjohann) writes:
>
>> Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> writes:
>>
>>> In English, the word "gnu" (meaning "wildebeest") can be pronounced with
>>> a silent "g", so that it sounds exactly the same as "new".  Therefore,
>>> using that convention, "Gnus" would be pronounced like "news".  Since
>>> Gnus was originally created as a usenet newsreader, that's a very
>>> appropriate name.
>>
>> I understand that the G is not silent, says Lars.
>
> Check "gnu" in an English dictionary.  I looked in several, and in all
> cases, the "g" is silent.  The first pronunciation is "noo", and the
> second one is "nyoo" (as if the "gn" were reversed to "ng", and the "g"
> turned into a glide).

The fundamental problem is the 'gnu' is not an english word, so I would not
trust their pronunciation.  I remember seeing an explanation by RMS at one
point about how the original pronunciation (by the indigenous people of the
area) of gnu was 'guh-new' and it was butchered when being imported into
the english language.  Anybody else remember this?

-bp
-- 
Ceterum censeo vi esse delendam

Re: The early gnus shars

[Xavier Maillard]

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On 5 mai 2003, Bill White spake thusly:

>  On Sun May 04 2003 at 21:06, Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> said:
>
> >  So tahat's around 2 minutes startup time for 12,000 groups.  If we
> >  went with the B News maximum of 512, that's a factor of 24, or only
> >  5 seconds for startup.  That doesn't seem bad, until you remember
> >  how slow the machines were back then.
> >
> >  I wonder if we'll ever find a 1.x or even 0.x version of gnus to
> >  play with.
> >
> >  So far, I haven't gotten a reply from Masanobu ... if he does get
> >  back to me, I'm going to ask him if he knows of any earlier
> >  versions.
>
>  Someone should write a book, or at least a long texinfo file.

You take the point ;) I would be interested in reading the whole gnus
story.

>  Cheers -

Same

zeDek
--
http://www.gnusfr.org -- French Gnus user site

Anti-war disclaimer:
	"Bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity"

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Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Xavier Maillard]

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On 4 mai 2003, Randal L. Schwartz stated:

> > > > > >  "Xavier" == Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> writes:
>
>  Xavier> I was taking my shower (yes I do sometimes :)), when
>  Xavier> something weird appeared in my mind : what does Gnus means
>  Xavier> exactly ?
>
>  As for the Gnus in "gnus.org", it means
>
>  "Gnus Network User Services"

Ok thanks. This is exactly the right answer I was expecting :)

>  See the whois.

I should have trid in fact but didn't think about it at all. Sorry for
the bothering ;)

zeDek
--
http://www.gnusfr.org -- French Gnus user site

Anti-war disclaimer:
	"Bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity"

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Re: The early gnus shars

[Xavier Maillard]

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On 4 mai 2003, Lloyd Zusman spake thusly:

>  Correcction:  of course, that's 1988, not 2988 ... although I do feel
>  like I've gone through a time warp. :)

Here we call it a "IPOT". People from linuxfr [1] and woof [2]
website are familiar with this expression ;) I can't remember the hell
what does this mean. I will diggle in my bookmark archive to retrieve
an URL :)

[...]

zeDek

-*Footnotes*-
[1] http://linuxfr.org
[2] http://woof.lu
--
http://www.gnusfr.org -- French Gnus user site

Anti-war disclaimer:
	"Bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity"

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 188 bytes --]

Re: The early gnus shars

[Frank Schmitt]

Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> writes:

> Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> writes:
>
>> I found version 2.0 of gnus, posted by Masanobu Umeda
>> (umerin@flab.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET) to comp.emacs on Feb. 1, 2988. 
>
> Correcction:  of course, that's 1988, not 2988 ... although I do feel
> like I've gone through a time warp. :)

Damned, Gnus turned 15 years old and we didn't even notice.

. o O Why the hell can't I get the idea of a Gnus splash screen showing
a Gnus with a paper hat and one of those party whistles (you know, the
ones which looks like this _@ before you blow in and like this ______@
after) out of my head.

-- 
WANTED: A nice signature
REWARD: none

Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Jon Ericson]

wmperry@gnu.org (William M. Perry) writes:

> The fundamental problem is the 'gnu' is not an english word, so I
> would not trust their pronunciation.

There are remarkable few English words if you don't count the ones
we've burrowed.  ;)

From an entirely practical standpoint, I find it imperative to
pronounce the G in some fashion:

  Me (to our SysAdmin):  Would you install Gnu make, please?

  SysAdmin:  We already have the latest patches from Sun.

  Me: No.  I mean G'nu make.

Jon
-- 
  Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the
  light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.  But whoever lives by
  the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that
  what he has done has been done through God."  -- John 3:20-21 (NIV)

Re: [OT] Of the meaning of GNUS

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Oystein Viggen <oysteivi@tihlde.org> writes:

> Not to mention that this would help help non-Norwegians learn how the
> hell to pronounce "Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen"  :)

I seem to be having most success just saying that it's pronounced
"Lars".

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: The early gnus shars

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Frank Schmitt <usereplyto@Frank-Schmitt.net> writes:

> Damned, Gnus turned 15 years old and we didn't even notice.

Oops.

> . o O Why the hell can't I get the idea of a Gnus splash screen showing
> a Gnus with a paper hat and one of those party whistles (you know, the
> ones which looks like this _@ before you blow in and like this ______@
> after) out of my head.

Hee hee hee.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: The early gnus shars

[Lloyd Zusman]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Frank Schmitt <usereplyto@Frank-Schmitt.net> writes:
>
>> Damned, Gnus turned 15 years old and we didn't even notice.
>
> Oops.
>
>> . o O Why the hell can't I get the idea of a Gnus splash screen showing
>> a Gnus with a paper hat and one of those party whistles (you know, the
>> ones which looks like this _@ before you blow in and like this ______@
>> after) out of my head.
>
> Hee hee hee.

By the way ...  Masanubo Umeda never responded to my email.  The message
didn't bounce, so I assume that he's either away from his email for an
extended period, or is trying to forget his dark Gnus past.

-- 
 Lloyd Zusman
 ljz@asfast.com

Re: The early gnus shars

[Shigeki UNO]

Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> writes:

> I found version 2.0 of gnus, posted by Masanobu Umeda
> (umerin@flab.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET) to comp.emacs on Feb. 1, 2988.  This
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> looks like it might be the first public posting.  The archives don't go
> back much earlier that this, and so I don't know if there was a 1.x
> version that was released earlier.

Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> writes:

> So far, I haven't gotten a reply from Masanobu ... if he does get back
> to me, I'm going to ask him if he knows of any earlier versions.

According to GNUS4.1 in mule-2.3, his e-mail address is
mailto:umerin@mse.kyutech.ac.jp and once(4-5 years years ago?) I sent
him an e-mail about GNUS 4.1 and got an answer from him.

If you don't get reply from him yet, why won't you send to the above
e-mail address?

HTH,
---
Shigeki UNO