[TUHS] emacs

[TUHS] emacs

[Will Senn]

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As a longtime user and lover of ed/ex/vi, I don't know much about emacs, 
but lately I've been using it more (as it seems like any self-respecting 
lisper, has to at least have a passing acquaintance with it). I recently 
went off and got MACLISP running in ITS. As part of that exploration, I 
used EMACS, but not just any old emacs, emacs in it's first incarnation 
as a set of TECO macros. To me, it just seemed like EMACS. I won't bore 
you with the details - imagine lots of control and escape sequences, 
many of which are the same today as then. This was late 70's stuff.

My question for the group is - when did emacs arrive in unix and was it 
a full fledged text editor when it came or was it sitting on top of some 
other subssystem in unix? Was TECO ever on unix?

Will

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[TUHS] Re: emacs

[Adam Thornton]

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There are certainly teco implementations for Unix, although I don't know if
it was ever anyone's default editor anywhere.  Indeed, there are multiple
implementations: I switched from a C teco implementation to pyteco in the
Rubin Science Platform JupyterLab implementation (its utility is of course
dubious, but this is part of both my nefarious plan to make Jupyter not
merely mean "Julia, Python, and R", but to use that "e" -- and reassociate
it with the "t" -- by making it mean "Julia, Python, Teco, and R", and also
to include an easter egg for a fellow project member who is a teco fan).

The first Emacs I used was GNU emacs at already version...16 or something?
In 1989, on ... I don't remember what the main system I used at the UT
Austin Chaos Lab was, actually; we had an SGI Iris, but that wasn't the
machine I did my editing on.  But by 1989 it was certainly well-available
and established.

On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 5:04 PM Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.com> wrote:

> As a longtime user and lover of ed/ex/vi, I don't know much about emacs,
> but lately I've been using it more (as it seems like any self-respecting
> lisper, has to at least have a passing acquaintance with it). I recently
> went off and got MACLISP running in ITS. As part of that exploration, I
> used EMACS, but not just any old emacs, emacs in it's first incarnation as
> a set of TECO macros. To me, it just seemed like EMACS. I won't bore you
> with the details - imagine lots of control and escape sequences, many of
> which are the same today as then. This was late 70's stuff.
>
> My question for the group is - when did emacs arrive in unix and was it a
> full fledged text editor when it came or was it sitting on top of some
> other subssystem in unix? Was TECO ever on unix?
>
> Will
>

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[TUHS] Re: emacs

[Rob Pike]

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There was a guy in production at Google using Unix TECO as his main editor
when I joined in 2002. He was astonished that I recognized it, but I had
used TECO in the early 1970s and, although I had no desire to return to it,
I did know it well enough to exclaim its presence when watching over his
shoulder.

So yes, apologies for not remembering his name, but it was at least one
person's default editor.

-rob


On Fri, Aug 4, 2023 at 10:19 AM Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com> wrote:

> There are certainly teco implementations for Unix, although I don't know
> if it was ever anyone's default editor anywhere.  Indeed, there are
> multiple implementations: I switched from a C teco implementation to pyteco
> in the Rubin Science Platform JupyterLab implementation (its utility is of
> course dubious, but this is part of both my nefarious plan to make Jupyter
> not merely mean "Julia, Python, and R", but to use that "e" -- and
> reassociate it with the "t" -- by making it mean "Julia, Python, Teco, and
> R", and also to include an easter egg for a fellow project member who is a
> teco fan).
>
> The first Emacs I used was GNU emacs at already version...16 or
> something?  In 1989, on ... I don't remember what the main system I used at
> the UT Austin Chaos Lab was, actually; we had an SGI Iris, but that wasn't
> the machine I did my editing on.  But by 1989 it was certainly
> well-available and established.
>
> On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 5:04 PM Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> As a longtime user and lover of ed/ex/vi, I don't know much about emacs,
>> but lately I've been using it more (as it seems like any self-respecting
>> lisper, has to at least have a passing acquaintance with it). I recently
>> went off and got MACLISP running in ITS. As part of that exploration, I
>> used EMACS, but not just any old emacs, emacs in it's first incarnation as
>> a set of TECO macros. To me, it just seemed like EMACS. I won't bore you
>> with the details - imagine lots of control and escape sequences, many of
>> which are the same today as then. This was late 70's stuff.
>>
>> My question for the group is - when did emacs arrive in unix and was it a
>> full fledged text editor when it came or was it sitting on top of some
>> other subssystem in unix? Was TECO ever on unix?
>>
>> Will
>>
>

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[TUHS] Re: emacs

[Larry McVoy]

I have yet to see someone see the stuff I use from BDS C's editor, here is
vi's version:

map # :.,$
map @ :1,.

And from Udi Manber, I watched him do this and said how the heck did you
make that paragraph reformat?

map , !}fmt^M

Sory, not TECO, but editor stuff.  I'll bow out.

On Fri, Aug 04, 2023 at 10:27:52AM +1000, Rob Pike wrote:
> There was a guy in production at Google using Unix TECO as his main editor
> when I joined in 2002. He was astonished that I recognized it, but I had
> used TECO in the early 1970s and, although I had no desire to return to it,
> I did know it well enough to exclaim its presence when watching over his
> shoulder.
> 
> So yes, apologies for not remembering his name, but it was at least one
> person's default editor.
> 
> -rob
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 4, 2023 at 10:19???AM Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > There are certainly teco implementations for Unix, although I don't know
> > if it was ever anyone's default editor anywhere.  Indeed, there are
> > multiple implementations: I switched from a C teco implementation to pyteco
> > in the Rubin Science Platform JupyterLab implementation (its utility is of
> > course dubious, but this is part of both my nefarious plan to make Jupyter
> > not merely mean "Julia, Python, and R", but to use that "e" -- and
> > reassociate it with the "t" -- by making it mean "Julia, Python, Teco, and
> > R", and also to include an easter egg for a fellow project member who is a
> > teco fan).
> >
> > The first Emacs I used was GNU emacs at already version...16 or
> > something?  In 1989, on ... I don't remember what the main system I used at
> > the UT Austin Chaos Lab was, actually; we had an SGI Iris, but that wasn't
> > the machine I did my editing on.  But by 1989 it was certainly
> > well-available and established.
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 5:04???PM Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> As a longtime user and lover of ed/ex/vi, I don't know much about emacs,
> >> but lately I've been using it more (as it seems like any self-respecting
> >> lisper, has to at least have a passing acquaintance with it). I recently
> >> went off and got MACLISP running in ITS. As part of that exploration, I
> >> used EMACS, but not just any old emacs, emacs in it's first incarnation as
> >> a set of TECO macros. To me, it just seemed like EMACS. I won't bore you
> >> with the details - imagine lots of control and escape sequences, many of
> >> which are the same today as then. This was late 70's stuff.
> >>
> >> My question for the group is - when did emacs arrive in unix and was it a
> >> full fledged text editor when it came or was it sitting on top of some
> >> other subssystem in unix? Was TECO ever on unix?
> >>
> >> Will
> >>
> >

-- 
---
Larry McVoy           Retired to fishing          http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat

[TUHS] Re: emacs

[Rich Salz]

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The Wikipedia articles give a good overview
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Corporation_of_America
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gosling_Emacs

We had one of the first Pyramid minicomputers, so we got lots of stuff to
port.

RMS claimed he modified the earlier, freely redistributable, version of
Gosling Emacs, not the one Unipress sold.
The skull and crossbones referenced above is at
https://donhopkins.com/home/archive/emacs/skull-and-crossbones.txt

Years later, Lucid forked it (now at xemacs.org) and the personalities
involved caused the "great Emacs schism"  A pox on both their houses, I say
:)

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[TUHS] Re: emacs

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Rich Salz wrote:
> RMS claimed he modified the earlier, freely redistributable, version
> of Gosling Emacs, not the one Unipress sold.  The skull and crossbones
> referenced above is at
> https://donhopkins.com/home/archive/emacs/skull-and-crossbones.txt

It's still there in GNU Emacs 13:
https://github.com/larsbrinkhoff/emacs-history/blob/sources/decuslib.com/decus/vax85b/gnuemax/emacs/src/display.c#L29-L67

[TUHS] Re: emacs

[Warner Losh]

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On Thu, Aug 3, 2023, 6:19 PM Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com> wrote:

> There are certainly teco implementations for Unix, although I don't know
> if it was ever anyone's default editor anywhere.  Indeed, there are
> multiple implementations: I switched from a C teco implementation to pyteco
> in the Rubin Science Platform JupyterLab implementation (its utility is of
> course dubious, but this is part of both my nefarious plan to make Jupyter
> not merely mean "Julia, Python, and R", but to use that "e" -- and
> reassociate it with the "t" -- by making it mean "Julia, Python, Teco, and
> R", and also to include an easter egg for a fellow project member who is a
> teco fan).
>
> The first Emacs I used was GNU emacs at already version...16 or
> something?  In 1989, on ... I don't remember what the main system I used at
> the UT Austin Chaos Lab was, actually; we had an SGI Iris, but that wasn't
> the machine I did my editing on.  But by 1989 it was certainly
> well-available and established.
>

We used some stripped down emacs in 1985 on the vax 11/750 running 4.2bsd.
 I built micro emacs for my DEC Rainbow under MS-DOS in the same time
period...

Warner

On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 5:04 PM Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> As a longtime user and lover of ed/ex/vi, I don't know much about emacs,
>> but lately I've been using it more (as it seems like any self-respecting
>> lisper, has to at least have a passing acquaintance with it). I recently
>> went off and got MACLISP running in ITS. As part of that exploration, I
>> used EMACS, but not just any old emacs, emacs in it's first incarnation as
>> a set of TECO macros. To me, it just seemed like EMACS. I won't bore you
>> with the details - imagine lots of control and escape sequences, many of
>> which are the same today as then. This was late 70's stuff.
>>
>> My question for the group is - when did emacs arrive in unix and was it a
>> full fledged text editor when it came or was it sitting on top of some
>> other subssystem in unix? Was TECO ever on unix?
>>
>> Will
>>
>

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[TUHS] Re: emacs

[Larry Stewart]

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[TUHS] Re: emacs

[Ronald Natalie]

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I started with Warren Montgomery’s EMACS.    Prior to that, my entire 
screen oriented experience was with INed (a variant of the Rand editor). 
    BRL largely switched to the free Gosling’s emacs and then later to 
Unipress.    I ended up working for Unipress for a few months.   Oddly, 
I ended up using JOVE (Johnathon’s Own Version of Emacs) because it is a 
small lightweight thing to move around.

Consequently, I never used leaned vi.   If there was no emacs variant on 
the machine, I used ed.   My employees were quite impressed by my 
ability to do complex editing with ed and regular expressions there.

-Ron

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[TUHS] Re: emacs

[Will Senn]

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Nice. the Rainbow was my first working PC. I loved it. It had a math 
coprocessor (that  I upgraded), z80 and 8088, with 1MB ram (that I 
upgraded it to, from 128k), ran Autocad! MSDOS 3.10b, CP/M and it was 
the machine I used with a 300baud modem to download the pre 1.0 
slackware - kermit/xmodem through a VMS gateway to the internet - 
1993/1994. I didn't have emacs though! I think I remember Ultrix or 
something like that, but I didn't run it.

On 8/3/23 19:32, Warner Losh wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 3, 2023, 6:19 PM Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>     There are certainly teco implementations for Unix, although I
>     don't know if it was ever anyone's default editor aInywhere. 
>     Indeed, there are multiple implementations: I switched from a C
>     teco implementation to pyteco in the Rubin Science Platform
>     JupyterLab implementation (its utility is of course dubious, but
>     this is part of both my nefarious plan to make Jupyter not merely
>     mean "Julia, Python, and R", but to use that "e" -- and
>     reassociate it with the "t" -- by making it mean "Julia, Python,
>     Teco, and R", and also to include an easter egg for a fellow
>     project member who is a teco fan).
>
>     The first Emacs I used was GNU emacs at already version...16 or
>     something?  In 1989, on ... I don't remember what the main system
>     I used at the UT Austin Chaos Lab was, actually; we had an SGI
>     Iris, but that wasn't the machine I did my editing on.  But by
>     1989 it was certainly well-available and established.
>
>
> We used some stripped down emacs in 1985 on the vax 11/750 running 
> 4.2bsd.   I built micro emacs for my DEC Rainbow under MS-DOS in the 
> same time period...
>
> Warner
>
>     On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 5:04 PM Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>         As a longtime user and lover of ed/ex/vi, I don't know much
>         about emacs, but lately I've been using it more (as it seems
>         like any self-respecting lisper, has to at least have a
>         passing acquaintance with it). I recently went off and got
>         MACLISP running in ITS. As part of that exploration, I used
>         EMACS, but not just any old emacs, emacs in it's first
>         incarnation as a set of TECO macros. To me, it just seemed
>         like EMACS. I won't bore you with the details - imagine lots
>         of control and escape sequences, many of which are the same
>         today as then. This was late 70's stuff.
>
>         My question for the group is - when did emacs arrive in unix
>         and was it a full fledged text editor when it came or was it
>         sitting on top of some other subssystem in unix? Was TECO ever
>         on unix?
>
>         Will
>

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[TUHS] Re: emacs

[Erik E. Fair]

I first learned original TECO-based EMACS on the Stanford CERAS DECsystem-20/60 running TOPS-20 during the summer of 1978 - I'd been using line-editors before that, and EMACS was a revelation. Heck, "intelligent" (CRT) terminals were a terrific replacement for teletypes, DECwriters, and "glass" TTYs.

When I got to UCB in the fall of 1980, it took until Winter quarter (1981) to get an account on the Cory Hall (EECS) PDP-11/70 running 2.8 BSD Unix, through the Berkeley Computer Club. The Warren Montgomery emacs was available, and since I already knew emacs keystrokes, that was my editor of choice ... initially. I converted to vi because I really hated having one finger on the CTRL key all day long.

It was also nice that the BSD tty line discpline displays what you type along the same lines as TOPS-20 did, including word-erase, though trying to use ^W that way in most emacs absolutely violates the Principle of Least Astonishment ... which if you've ever interacted with rms, should not really surprise given what he did with ^S, ^Q, and ^H.

Emacs has been available (in one form or another) on Unix for a very long time.

	Erik

[TUHS] Re: emacs

[Greg 'groggy' Lehey]

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On Thursday,  3 August 2023 at 17:19:10 -0700, Adam Thornton wrote:
>
> The first Emacs I used was GNU emacs at already version...16 or something?
> In 1989,

Coincidentally that's when I first used GNU Emacs on a Unix-like
system (SCO Xenix, also coincidentally in Austin).  The version was
18.51.

But as Warner says, there were plenty of Emacs-lookalikes on other
platforms, notably MINCE (MINCE Is Not Complete Emacs) on the Z-80,
which I used from 1980, and others, including the micro Emacs that
Warner used.

The Emacs lineage (TECO → GNU Emacs) isn't as straight as it might
appear.  There was also a Gosling Emacs in the interim time, and I
gather that rms used some of the concepts (screen refresh?) for GNU
Emacs.  Also I recall that the version numbering was a little
defective, something like skipping a number of major version numbers
because it seemed that enough time had passed.  But I'm hazy on the
details, and maybe somebody else can fill in.

Greg
--
Sent from my desktop computer.
Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
This message is digitally signed.  If your Microsoft mail program
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[TUHS] Re: emacs

[Clem Cole]

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http://wiki.c2.com/?TecoEditor

Cantrell’s teco was pretty fast and used a lot less resources than any of
the Unix EMACS invocations.  Gosling / CMU EMACS showed up in 81 on the Vax
and is where mocklisp came from.   Zimmerman EMACS may have been earlier at
MIT but Steve sold it to CCA so it was not nearly as widespread. Noel may
know more. We got a license from CCA in ‘84 and shipped it on the Masscomp
systems.

Rms did like a number things gosling did and start to rewrite it.  (The
defaults were different from ITS was one of his issues). He released his
version around 85. FWIW:   There is still some bad blood wrt to that whole
path best I can tell.

I think there were a couple of others.


On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 8:04 PM Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.com> wrote:

> As a longtime user and lover of ed/ex/vi, I don't know much about emacs,
> but lately I've been using it more (as it seems like any self-respecting
> lisper, has to at least have a passing acquaintance with it). I recently
> went off and got MACLISP running in ITS. As part of that exploration, I
> used EMACS, but not just any old emacs, emacs in it's first incarnation as
> a set of TECO macros. To me, it just seemed like EMACS. I won't bore you
> with the details - imagine lots of control and escape sequences, many of
> which are the same today as then. This was late 70's stuff.
>
> My question for the group is - when did emacs arrive in unix and was it a
> full fledged text editor when it came or was it sitting on top of some
> other subssystem in unix? Was TECO ever on unix?
>
>
> Will
>
-- 
Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual

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[TUHS] Re: emacs

[Clem Cole]

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Rms did Not like.    Sigh

On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 8:44 PM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:

> http://wiki.c2.com/?TecoEditor
>
> Cantrell’s teco was pretty fast and used a lot less resources than any of
> the Unix EMACS invocations.  Gosling / CMU EMACS showed up in 81 on the Vax
> and is where mocklisp came from.   Zimmerman EMACS may have been earlier at
> MIT but Steve sold it to CCA so it was not nearly as widespread. Noel may
> know more. We got a license from CCA in ‘84 and shipped it on the Masscomp
> systems.
>
> Rms did like a number things gosling did and start to rewrite it.  (The
> defaults were different from ITS was one of his issues). He released his
> version around 85. FWIW:   There is still some bad blood wrt to that whole
> path best I can tell.
>
> I think there were a couple of others.
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 8:04 PM Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> As a longtime user and lover of ed/ex/vi, I don't know much about emacs,
>> but lately I've been using it more (as it seems like any self-respecting
>> lisper, has to at least have a passing acquaintance with it). I recently
>> went off and got MACLISP running in ITS. As part of that exploration, I
>> used EMACS, but not just any old emacs, emacs in it's first incarnation as
>> a set of TECO macros. To me, it just seemed like EMACS. I won't bore you
>> with the details - imagine lots of control and escape sequences, many of
>> which are the same today as then. This was late 70's stuff.
>>
>> My question for the group is - when did emacs arrive in unix and was it a
>> full fledged text editor when it came or was it sitting on top of some
>> other subssystem in unix? Was TECO ever on unix?
>>
>>
>> Will
>>
> --
> Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
>
-- 
Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual

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[TUHS] Re: emacs

[Warner Losh]

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On Thu, Aug 3, 2023, 6:44 PM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:

> http://wiki.c2.com/?TecoEditor
>
> Cantrell’s teco was pretty fast and used a lot less resources than any of
> the Unix EMACS invocations.  Gosling / CMU EMACS showed up in 81 on the Vax
> and is where mocklisp came from.   Zimmerman EMACS may have been earlier at
> MIT but Steve sold it to CCA so it was not nearly as widespread. Noel may
> know more. We got a license from CCA in ‘84 and shipped it on the Masscomp
> systems.
>
> Rms did like a number things gosling did and start to rewrite it.  (The
> defaults were different from ITS was one of his issues). He released his
> version around 85. FWIW:   There is still some bad blood wrt to that whole
> path best I can tell.
>

RMS started with Gosling's emacs, did a half-hearted rewrite by evolving
that code and claimed it all as his. Gosling was understandably upset by
this and made him stop. The release notes from the early teens of releases
document some of the drama. The last thing was the screen code and was
still a sticking point even after the rewrite... a lot happened on mailing
lists too, but I've not found those archives..

The ill will was well earned...

Warner


I think there were a couple of others.
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 8:04 PM Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> As a longtime user and lover of ed/ex/vi, I don't know much about emacs,
>> but lately I've been using it more (as it seems like any self-respecting
>> lisper, has to at least have a passing acquaintance with it). I recently
>> went off and got MACLISP running in ITS. As part of that exploration, I
>> used EMACS, but not just any old emacs, emacs in it's first incarnation as
>> a set of TECO macros. To me, it just seemed like EMACS. I won't bore you
>> with the details - imagine lots of control and escape sequences, many of
>> which are the same today as then. This was late 70's stuff.
>>
>> My question for the group is - when did emacs arrive in unix and was it a
>> full fledged text editor when it came or was it sitting on top of some
>> other subssystem in unix? Was TECO ever on unix?
>>
>>
>> Will
>>
> --
> Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
>

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[TUHS] Re: emacs

[Dan Halbert]

On 8/3/23 20:44, Clem Cole wrote:
> Gosling / CMU EMACS showed up in 81 on the Vax and is where mocklisp 
> came from.

Do not forget Multics EMACS (1978), 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multics_Emacs, written in Lisp by Bernie 
Greenberg, and the Lisp Machine emacsen, 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EINE_and_ZWEI, by the late Dan Weinreb. I 
knew the authors of both of these well.

Dan H

[TUHS] Re: emacs

[Bakul Shah]

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I had ported Gosling Emacs to Fortune System in 1981 or 82. It was painfully slow. I vaguely remember that was due to bitfields use, for which our C compiler (pcc based IIRC) did not generate good code. I gave up at that point as it was a side project & vi was more than good enough. Earlier I had used TECO (logged in to ITS from an IMP @ USC) but not emacs.

> On Aug 3, 2023, at 5:04 PM, Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> As a longtime user and lover of ed/ex/vi, I don't know much about emacs, but lately I've been using it more (as it seems like any self-respecting lisper, has to at least have a passing acquaintance with it). I recently went off and got MACLISP running in ITS. As part of that exploration, I used EMACS, but not just any old emacs, emacs in it's first incarnation as a set of TECO macros. To me, it just seemed like EMACS. I won't bore you with the details - imagine lots of control and escape sequences, many of which are the same today as then. This was late 70's stuff.
> 
> My question for the group is - when did emacs arrive in unix and was it a full fledged text editor when it came or was it sitting on top of some other subssystem in unix? Was TECO ever on unix?
> 
> Will


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[TUHS] Re: emacs

[Noel Chiappa]

    > From: Will Senn

    > when did emacs arrive in unix and was it a full fledged text editor
    > when it came or was it sitting on top of some other subssystem

Montgomery Emacs was the first I knew of; it started on PDP-11 UNIX.
According to:

  https://github.com/larsbrinkhoff/emacs-history/blob/sources/docs/Montgomery%20Emacs%20History.txt

Montgomery Emacs started in 1980 or so; here:

  http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/unix/emacs/emacs.doc

is a manual from May, 1981.

It had pretty full EMACS functionality, but the editor was not written in an
implementation language of any kind (like the original, and like much later
GNU Emacs); it was written in C. It did have macros for extensions, but they
were written in Emacs commands, so, like the TECO that the original was
written in, their source looks kind of like line noise. (Does anyone young
even know what line noise looks like any more? I feel so old - and I'm a
youngster compared to McIlroy!)


    > Was TECO ever on unix?

I don't think it was widespread, but there was a TECO on the PDP-11 UNIXes at
MIT; until Montgomery Emacs arrived, it was the primary editor used on those
machines.

Not that most people used TECO commands for editing; early on, they added '^R
mode' to the UNIX TECO, similar to the one on ITS TECO, and a macro package
was written for it (in TECO - so again, the source looks like line noise);
the command set was like a stripped down EMACS - about a dozen command
characters total; see the table about a page down here:

  http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/unix/teco/help

All the source, and documentation, such as it is, it available, here:

  http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/unix/teco/

but don't even think about running it. It's written in MACRO-11, and it used
a version of that hacked at MIT to run on UNIX. To build new versions of
that, you need a special linker - written in BCPL. So you also need the UNIX
BCPL compiler.

	Noel

[TUHS] Re: emacs

[Jonathan Gray]

On Thu, Aug 03, 2023 at 10:17:28PM -0400, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>     > From: Will Senn
>     > Was TECO ever on unix?
> 
> I don't think it was widespread, but there was a TECO on the PDP-11 UNIXes at
> MIT; until Montgomery Emacs arrived, it was the primary editor used on those
> machines.
> 
> Not that most people used TECO commands for editing; early on, they added '^R
> mode' to the UNIX TECO, similar to the one on ITS TECO, and a macro package
> was written for it (in TECO - so again, the source looks like line noise);
> the command set was like a stripped down EMACS - about a dozen command
> characters total; see the table about a page down here:
> 
>   http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/unix/teco/help
> 
> All the source, and documentation, such as it is, it available, here:
> 
>   http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/unix/teco/
> 
> but don't even think about running it. It's written in MACRO-11, and it used
> a version of that hacked at MIT to run on UNIX. To build new versions of
> that, you need a special linker - written in BCPL. So you also need the UNIX
> BCPL compiler.
> 
> 	Noel

The HRSTS version of it can be found in the UNSW tapes.
The usenix 77 tape has h/help/teco and a 0-sized h/teco/cont.a
Matt Fichtenbaum's TECO for Ultrix appears in
tuhs/Applications/Shoppa_Tapes/usenix878889.tar.gz
usenix87/Editors/Teco/

"Harvard UNIX TECO runs under the UNIX operating system on a
PDP-11.  It was written by Bob Case, Peter Langston, Bruce Borden,
Brent Byer, and Tucker Taft using the Harvard-Radcliffe Student
Timesharing System (HRSTS)."

"Harvard UNIX TECO is based on a 1973 version of MIT TECO and is
written in MACRO-11. There is a possibility that this TECO will
be expanded and recoded into C in the near future."

https://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/teco/MobyMunger_%233part2_Nov79.pdf

"HRSTS (new)Teco V_3p"

https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/UNSW/88/
hp14/source/L/teco/

https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/UNSW/90/
L/teco/

"BBN has a TECO for Unix."
tuhs/Documentation/AUUGN/AUUGN-V01.5.pdf pg 57
SOFTWARE TOOLS and UNIX Users Group Conference Report
by David M. Phillips, 26 June 1979

[TUHS] Re: emacs

[Jonathan Gray]

On Thu, Aug 03, 2023 at 10:17:28PM -0400, Noel Chiappa wrote:
> All the source, and documentation, such as it is, it available, here:
> 
>   http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/unix/teco/
> 
> but don't even think about running it. It's written in MACRO-11, and it used
> a version of that hacked at MIT to run on UNIX. To build new versions of
> that, you need a special linker - written in BCPL. So you also need the UNIX
> BCPL compiler.

1bsd has a bin/teco, which runs.

"teco which is of unknown origin (its mentioned in the Pascal
document so I threw it in.)"
Bill Joy, November 13, 1977
bin/READ_ME

at&t's unix system toolchest also included a teco, according
to various articles from 1985.

[TUHS] Re: emacs

[Noel Chiappa]

    > From: Rob Pike

    > There was a guy in production at Google using Unix TECO as his main
    > editor when I joined in 2002. 

Do you happen to know which version it was, or what it was written in?

It must have been _somebody_'s re-implementation, but I wonder who or where
(or why :-).

	Noel

[TUHS] Re: emacs

[Rob Pike]

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Sorry, no, I don't.

-rob


On Fri, Aug 4, 2023 at 12:36 PM Noel Chiappa <jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
wrote:

>     > From: Rob Pike
>
>     > There was a guy in production at Google using Unix TECO as his main
>     > editor when I joined in 2002.
>
> Do you happen to know which version it was, or what it was written in?
>
> It must have been _somebody_'s re-implementation, but I wonder who or where
> (or why :-).
>
>         Noel
>

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[TUHS] Re: emacs

[Clem Cole]

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I offered Ward Cunningham's TECO page in my earlier message - which has one
of my favorite quotes:  *"TECO Madness -- a moment of convenience, a
lifetime of regret".*

I also mention Cantrell's C/UNIX version: Video teco
<https://streaklinks.com/Bm-JfYsNjZmndQ2FbAL4U22k/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.copters.com%2Fteco.html>

If this was someone using teco recently, Paul's version is possible/likely
as it was in C and became the teco many of used for UNIX.
For a while, I could never quite decide if I liked it more than vi, but
since ed and vi were >>everywhere<< from the Cray-1 to a PC, I stopped
using TECO as it sometimes took a little effort to make it work (although
Paul was pretty careful) - but particularly on non-UNIX boxes (other than
VMS) it might not be so easy.  Since Oscar's PiDP-10 and Angelo's PDP-1
work, I'll need an editor again, so I may have to relearn it -- be
interesting to see how fast it comes back. 🤔

For systems with a C compiler, Ward Miller's s (which is a subset of vi -
https://github.com/udo-munk/s) has been my go-to.
I was playing with getting it running on V7 since it full video for a
VT-100.

ᐧ

On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 10:36 PM Noel Chiappa <jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
wrote:

>     > From: Rob Pike
>
>     > There was a guy in production at Google using Unix TECO as his main
>     > editor when I joined in 2002.
>
> Do you happen to know which version it was, or what it was written in?
>
> It must have been _somebody_'s re-implementation, but I wonder who or where
> (or why :-).
>
>         Noel
>

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[TUHS] Re: emacs

[George Michaelson]

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Gosling Emacs had a very handy "make the following sequence of commands a
macro" feature which I used to do stupid fix ups to text files cross file.
Things like "find every line which starts with x.. back up two lines and
fix something else y and insert z, then save the file and go onto the next
one"

People laughed at me pointing to much better tools (spitbol?, sed?) But
sometimes the hammer you have smashes those delicate screws into the watch
case just beautifully quickly. If somewhat crudely.

I liked teco. It's in the freebsd ports tree as an uplift to c I believe.

G

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